The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation

Episode 125 - From Distant Kingdoms, With 12,000 Trumpets, They Kneel Before A Child

• Paul

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Trumpets shake a hillside, silk shimmers in torchlight, and three rulers from far-off kingdoms kneel before a child in a cave. That’s where our journey leads: Ethiopia, Central Asia, and the Far East converge on Bethlehem, not with tidy legends but with layered history, vivid colours, and a cascade of gifts that fill the air with spice and smoke. We follow an Armenian infancy tradition, likely rooted in Syriac sources, and read it alongside Bede to sketch not just who the Magi were, but how their presence reframes the scene—poverty and splendour in one frame, the world’s wealth at the feet of a family who could not find a room.

We explore why art fixed on three figures while older accounts speak of twelve or even fifteen, and how ages, garments, and fabrics tell a story of power and purpose. Melchior appears as an elder robed in intricate silk; Caspar stands as a red‑haired youth from the mountain world around Taxila; Balthazar carries the weight of Ethiopian gold and precious stones. Their gifts go far beyond the familiar trio: cassia, cinnamon, nard, aloes, pearls, purple, and muslin expand the symbolism. Incense signals worship of God. Gold honours a true king. Myrrh anticipates burial, pairing with cloths that hint at a tomb before the cross comes into view.

Then the heart of it: as each king offers his treasure, a vision opens. One sees the Son of God enthroned among angelic hosts. Another beholds the Son of Man ruling the nations. The elder sees suffering, death, and resurrection. Rather than conflict, these visions fuse into a single confession: the child is Lord of heaven, judge of earth, and the lamb who conquers by love. The Magi step back out into the night understanding that their gifts were parables in their hands, and that history itself has been moving toward this cave. We end on a tantalising note as an ancient testament, said to trace from Adam, is placed before the child—its reading saved for next time.

If this journey opened something new for you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review telling us which vision—Son of God, Son of Man, or Suffering Lamb—spoke to you most.

The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore

Rev Dr PRB:

Well, welcome to the next episode of the Christ-centered cosmic civilization as we continue to think about those wonderful magi from long ago and all these historical accounts of them. Where were they from? What did they do? And then this document down from Adam through Seth, Noah, and so on, Cyrus to be hidden in this Chinese cave of wonders. And then they've all travelled by the star and all of that. And we're actually looking this time, continuing to look at the Armenian account of the Nativdi, or one of the Armenian Armenian accounts of the Nativde. And we've got to. They've been dancing, playing trumpets, all the armies, and a huge carry-on of excitement and worship and wonder when they've got to the cave, and then the fact that he's born in a cave is of really absolutely universal character in these testimonies. He's definitely born in a cave, that's for sure. But it's quite intimidating for Mary and Joseph, as we'll see in a moment. But before we do that, last time we were trying we spent some time thinking about where in the world Melchior, Kaspar, and Balthazar came from. Balthazar's African from Ethiopia, Kaspar's Central Asia, Pakistan, India, and region, and then Melchior, Melcom, he's probably more Chinese, Burma, Tibet, like that, and the Pacific Coast region again. But now what about their appearance? That's a there's a fascin that's quite fascinating how descriptions of what they look like are handed down and different historians and gat gather these records of the appearance of the Magi, some older, some younger and of them. Because we are they're often depicted as three equally aged men, but in the case of Gondafar, he or Casper, he of course has yet to found his mighty Central Asian Empire. So he's not, he can't be, you know, just it stands to reason. His great accomplishments lie ahead of him. So he's a he's he might to me anyway. We'll find out from PJ, who'll tell us about the appearance of them as it's been handed down. But I would have assumed uh Kaspar Gandafar must have been a younger man because he accomplishes many things later. But uh let's find out what sources do we have about their appearance? Who was the best place to go just to get a grasp of what did they look like? You take us through this. So some of the earliest stuff is in art, so that's obviously hard to show you on a podcast, but you can look it up, you can see there's ancient, you know, in catacombs and mosaics and all of that. There's a definite idea, and the uh three, so and as we're thinking, the Armenian gospel thing there is trying to bring together different ideas. So for a while, the 12 magi was biggest in literature, but in art it was always the three that were was gonna make it. They were visually interesting and different, these three we've thought about Casper Melchior and Balthazar. And so that they often get artists more excited, so we get lots of that stuff, and uh Saint Bede the Venerable Bede, he gives his description from tradition, and that includes art. You know, he he thinks a lot about that side and he tries to give a definitive account of what they look like from uh from because he's incredibly learned, he had a huge library, and had inherited a huge one from Benedict Bishop. He'd uh so yeah, he had a and Bede. I remember when I was young, people tended to dismiss him. Uh yeah, and like, oh, he's he's just not he's not a serious historian. But I noticed now people do tend to take him a lot more seriously, and that his access to materials from different parts of the world, even, is taken quite seriously, isn't it? Yeah, and yeah, knowing people who have travelled, and I think he himself has travelled at times, he's yeah, he's as you say, there's been a lot more reassessment of him, uh, as there are for loads of people like Philo and Josephus and all of them, we think about them a lot. There is in the in modern sort of more non-Christian academia than Christian academia, taking saints seriously. Honestly, we've we've talked about that often. Like, if you want to like get to grips with these ancient historical sources, for some reason it's not true of all Christian scholars, because there are some very good Christian scholars, but there's a lot of that that are not very good, and they have this tendency to kind of they want to prove that they're good scholars by doubting everything, even to the point where you're like, Well, hang on, that's just ridiculous. Like, you've got to take that seriously, and they're like, nah, if it can be doubted, I will doubt it. They're sort of Cartesian almost, and so they end up being regarded as poor scholars because they're not taking things seriously that they should take seriously. We've got very frustrated with some of that. But here we go. I'm gonna read the Bede stuff, and then we'll get PJ to react to each of them and see what it tells what he can what he'll guide us about. The opinion. So he this Bede says the these are the Magi who gave the gifts. The first was Melchior. Interestingly, he starts with Melchior. He's he seems quite often to be listed first. Maybe he travels the furthest, I don't know. Melchior. Now listen this old and aging with a full beard and long hair. So that's interesting. Picture in your mind. He has a violet robe, a green cape, and a pair of shoes with blue and white mixed together. The work of many men. His turban was dressed in a varying composition. He offered gold as for a king. What about that? This sort of guy's a Chinese guy with long hair, which you get that kind of appearance, don't you, with Chinese like rulers and things? Well, I think uh when we thought in the Revelation of the Magi, each of these kingdoms send certain representatives to go to the cave. And so in the one closest to China would have been the first to have received word from these 12 representatives that become their commanders. Uh, so it does make sense he'd be first in sense. He's probably the first to get going, and yeah, so that's probably is that, and that he's got silk, obviously, that is closer to and possibly in the sort of areas where you're getting silk produced, and so he has much readier access to it. Whereas in Rome it's a huge commodity, uh, and you know, it's probably quite expensive for him, but so he's to to have a very wealthy stuff, he's gotta have it like worked in a particular way. It's got to have intricate weaving, so it can't just be silk, like Romans could do that, they could just have a silk thing, and then it's like, wow, he had a lot of money, doesn't have to do anything with it, it's just there's silk. Whereas he's gotta do something a bit more, doesn't he? And it the work of many men, his outfit. So melchior, green violet robe, green cape, blue and white shoes, long hair, long beard. Old man. There we go. Second, Caspar Gondafar, McBead says he's young, beardless, redhead, a red-headed youth. He w also, he's got bright green robe, bright red cloak, and blue shoes. So the blue shoes, the other guy is blue and white, but his is just blue. Bright green, bright red, blue shoes. He offered incense as an offering worthy of God. So there you go, he's young and he's a redhead. Yeah, it's interesting that um yeah, it's like stronger colours, isn't it? Yeah, he's like Melchior's gone very subtle. He's very, and then even when he's got blue shoes, he's mixed white in, so it's all understated for him. Whereas Kaspar is He's gone large and but I suppose if he's gonna rally support because he's gonna declare independence and stuff, he's probably working on a brand more, whereas Melchior's probably much more subtle than he. So he's got sort of soft power. Caspar has to work on hard power. And the red the red her, if he's from like Pakistan, northern India, there is that way, like red hair, there is a because that idea that holy men have red hair is part of that whole tradition there, and and he's got red hair. Either he's dyed it red because of this association with holiness, because of course Jesus has red hair, so that's all that association. Or there is of course that connection, sometimes people connect it to the Greeks, like maybe, or something like that, who were I don't know what that tells us. I tend to think he he may have dyed his hair because it's a sign of holiness, isn't it? But as you say, they uh that in the region you see this, and in because his capital's in the mountains with a taxila, and in mountain areas, the the redheaded gene basically means you can get enough vitamin D without getting lots of sunlight, and so it's useful in colder and cloudier and mountainous parts, and if you're in in indoors a lot. So it could be that that a mountainous region, a cold mountainous region will favour red-headedness. And we know people from the era who do say you get that a lot more in the mountains, so it could just be that's where he's from. Okay. I won't I I I I yeah, the dyeing his hair ready doesn't need to, he's a mountain dweller. And then the third called Balthazar black guy. He just says he's a black guy with a full beard. He ha this is Bede writing. When's Bede again? What so he's one of the later church founders, isn't he? He's like 6th century and 7th century, isn't he? So he's about the same time as this uh Armenian infantry thing. That's right. Or the translation. The translation. So Balthas are black with a full beard, and he's got a dark red a dark red robe interwoven with white. And he wore green shoes. He offered up myrrh for the Son of Man, professing that he must die. Wow. So the Ethiopian guy's bringing this profound gift to do with the the crucifixion, really. And interesting to note, he's the middle-aged one, and he's thinking about death, and he finds the solution in Jesus. That that's a common thing people go through. I think each of their ages are sort of important that you've got Caspar, he's vibrant and thinking like I've got to start season life. That's more his Melchior's or like, nah, I've got it all settled, and I can just be sort of understated. So they've all kind of got their own age thing, and yeah, so he's thinking about that a young man, a middle-aged man, and an old man, and each different, and each presumably wearing clothes that were culturally representative of where they're coming from, and it certainly it feels like that way that the colours are different, the styles are different. But Bede concludes they all wore clothes of pure silk, so the material is consistent, pure silk, because they were pure men and they covered themselves in purity. So silk has an association with purity here for Bede. I think silk even has an antibacterial effect, like it's something that is scientifically provable, like it's not just an ancient sort of superstition or something. So we've even got some soap in in the GCHP offices that is use uses silk, like the liquid form of it, and so it is antibacterial in that sense. So it's quite interesting. That's a real thing, that it has a sort of purity, purifying effect. So it's not just symbolic of purity, it achieves purity. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's move on because that's we've hopefully got a clearer picture in our minds now of the appearance of the three like ruling Magi. Because we remember there's twelve of fifteen, really. There's fifteen of them, three who are at the top of the hierarchy, and then each of them seems to have four under Magi who, and we don't get their appearances, but maybe address similarly. I don't know. But we've got their names in the we did get their names. I'll maybe try to put all their names in the in the notes for this episode as well, so you can all enjoy that. Let's get back to the Armenian infancy gospel because they've all arrived. Remember, and there's 12,000, they've got trumpets playing, dancings going on, all these people dressed in these magnificent clothes from all over the world. Mary and Joseph, it says, terrified, they fled the cave, and the child, Jesus Christ, was left alone sitting in the manger for the animals. So I find this interesting that Mary and Joseph, because most people would pick the baby up and carry the baby with them while they were running away. But there's this kind of thing, you'll notice it in these episodes, that they don't feel like it's as if they don't need to be with Jesus all the time because he doesn't, he's not like an ordinary baby. That he doesn't, you'll there's a thing that I think it comes in this document, that he doesn't even need sustenance in the same way that other babies do, and he's kind of self-contained and can manage himself. But they do leave him, and then they're the all these princes saw Joseph and they said to him, Why are you startled and fleeing? Don't fear. Were people just like you? And then Joseph says, Well, where have you come from and who are you looking for? And the Magi replied, We've come from a distant land with many gifts, and we desire to see and worship the newborn child, the king of the Jews. If you know where he is, tell us so we may see him. Hearing this, Mary re-enters the cave, and again, note again, it's always a cave, and she takes the child into her lap and glorified God with thanksgiving. And then uh Joseph's still outside chatting to the Magi, and he's kind of speechless, so he just points to the cave, and then it says, The Magi came with joy to the entrance and saw the child seated in the manger, falling down on their faces. The kings, princes, and the whole multitude of their throng worshipped him and they presented the gifts. Here, then, there's a little extra bit about the gifts. Also, constantly note that they're always worshipping him, so it's an implicit recognition of his deity, but as you PJ say, later accounts after Nicaea and written in the medieval period, they go out of their way to give us like quite abstract definitions of the deity of Jesus. Here they don't do that, they just imply it. Yeah, and that the it referred to his father as the true king of Israel earlier, and so yeah, it does sort of every now and then does even call Jesus God. Yeah. But whereas, as you say, after during, even in the lead up to Nicaea, during and after, then there's an incredible sort of focus every single time you mention Jesus, it's like he's God and the father's God and all that. You've got to of the they share the same divine substance and things like this. Whereas it is to them implied, if you've got the son of the father, like Athanasius points out, you know, if you've got the son of God, for him to be the true son, he has to be the same sort of species, he has to be equally God in the same sense the father and the son are equally human. So, like that is sort of apparent to someone who had been writing before Nicaea and everything. That's actually the culture of it. And so when this is like just saying refers to the Jesus or uh the divinity of Jesus in these natural biblical ways rather than an overly philosophical way, that is one of the reasons we might think the original Syriac version of this book we're reading. Uh so it's called the Armenian Gospel, but it's not originally Armenian, it's originally Syriac, but we only have it in Armenian. But this original would seem to be third century because it doesn't seem to be too lost in that sort of over well, you can never overstate the divinity of Jesus, but that way you've got. They don't see that it's like obvious. You don't need to, you don't need to s make a big thing about it because it's like, well, obviously he is. And they always think like in the gospels, it's uh that the religious kind of zealot people are upset with Jesus, and they say he he thinks he's the son of the father, and therefore makes himself equal with God. So that I love that little verse because it says if he is the son of the father, he is equal to the father. And that kind of assumption is just the and it's only later that people have to go, hang on, let us say tell you philosophically exactly what that means. Was for regular people who are just they understand that they don't you don't need that extra layer of abstraction. Yeah. Okay, so the gifts of the May, look at this. Let's I'll read, I'll go through them and then see if you want to comment on the on the extravagance and quantity of gifts. So first came Gasper, the king of India, and he opened the precious nard, cassia, cinnamon, frankincense, other burnable substances, sweet smelling ointments and incense, and immediately a sweet fragrance filled the cave. So he's bringing the incense and he's bringing and and it smells good. It smells good. Does that correspond? So that's uh yeah, incense, that's right. That's what Bede also said that it's the sweet smelling burnables that he brings. What about that? Incense from India. Yeah, so you've got I think what's interesting about it is that we expect there to be from all the prophecies everyone knows are about the three kings, we know they gave more than just mere frankens. In gold, you know, because it mentions things like silver and it mentions all sorts, you know, and they load up loads of camels, and that all gets mentioned in the prophecies. And so all Matthew has to do is like, you know, that, and he just alludes to the bottom, and you think, oh, well, that's all going to be coming true. So he doesn't tell you the whole thing. He knows you've got to expect lots of camels, and you've got to expect, you know, all of this. Uh so we know there's more than just gold, frankincense, and mare, but those are incredibly meaningful substances, so that's why Matthew focuses on those. But yeah, we know there's obviously lots more, and here we're getting accounting. Yeah, exactly. And cinnamon, so that is still, I think, one of India's big sort of exports. So that well, recently uh when I was in a shop and they were selling incense sticks and things, and they were all from India. And and the comment was, oh well, you know, that's where you get all your incense from. Even today. I don't think it's all from India today, but it was like the assumption was even today. So that's what he's brought. Lots of burnable, sweet smelling things. And as soon as he went in and got it out, the cave was filled with the aroma of all these wonderful fragrances. Then it says Balthazar Balthazar came, he opened his great treasure and presented. He has the gold here. Whereas we know, Bede says, nah, it's Melchior who brought the gold. So there could be some cross commit confusion here. But Balthazar here is represented with he brought gold and silver, precious gems, pearls, and sapphire. So when we uh Yeah, so you'd think with gold, because when Solomon wants gold, he goes to Ethiopia. So that I think is why Balthazar is the one. So you can see why they assume he's getting it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think even in some of the prophecies, you get um gold from Sheba, you know, will come. That's right. So that there's a solid account for that, but then there's also where is Saber, and then some people say that's like China, so that's why sometimes Melchior gets made the gold one. Uh sometimes even it's Casper. So they there's a gold, you know, there's lots of gold around. If you're a king, you've got them. But yeah, that's so it's a solid case that both Bede and this infancy gospel have. But yeah, you can imagine in Ethiopia you get lots of ancient and precious minerals. Balphazar, it he could be the one who brings the gold and silver then, the gems, the pearls, the sapphire. But Bede, I think Bede had it differently, didn't he? But we thought, because he mentions the ages and everything, that he got someone middle aged could be having a midlife crisis, but doesn't because he trusts in Jesus. So that sort of that sort of makes sense. You get more of his character. Whereas I suppose this is just working with he's from Ethiopia. It's like, wow, they're famous for exporting gold. So it must be, yeah. Yeah. Well, Melkon or Melchior, and we think that's the Chinese guy. He here, in this account, the Armenian one, he's brought myrrh with aloes, muslin, cloth, purple, and other precious fabrics. So it's the and we his clothes were where Bede had him wearing crazy good clothes. Yeah. Uh so he's brought loads of good cloths, but also myrrh for burial purposes. Yeah, so that's where when we think about myrrh and frankincense, the what's interesting about them is they both at the time primarily derived from a place called the Frankincense Kingdom, uh, also called Hadamat in the south of Arabia. It's in Yemen. So that is one where they often think, like, well, you can't have Balthazar given both, and so they wonder, like, exactly. So that's why the meaning behind one or the other is important. But that, yeah, you've got it here that you're bringing up the articles, and we've got Horn of Africa, you get lots of that from. So that's a heavily debated thing. But then when we say, yeah, if you think it's not just this one gift, it comes with a load of other things he's thinking about. So if you've got aloes and you've got the precious fabrics, and as we thought, so if you're using myrrh to purify a body for death, and then silk has that purificating, and then if he's based in China, then he or if he's based in Persia, then you get all the silk travelling through, you know, whichever one it is, that does seem to make sense. If you think, alright, what's myrh for? That fits into these other categories where you've got silk and all of that, and then you think, well, these gotta be the Persian or Chinese, then that really makes the most sense. So you can see that. So they present all these gifts, and it turns out there's not just three gifts, there's the the gifts like there's girl, Frank says of my, but with each of them, tons of other associated gifts. And then I'll read again now from the Armenian account. It says, After each had presented his gift, the king stepped out of the cave and sat together in the open. They marvelled to one another. How wonderful is this act we have witnessed with our eyes. They are poor and destitute of everything. That's interesting again, isn't it? Because now again, uh they're sometimes presented as wealthier with a second home in Bethlehem and things like that, or that everybody that they had the same uh level of economic prosperity as everybody else. But that's this testimony. Oh I'll start it again. They marveled to one another. How wonderful is this act we've witnessed with our eyes? They are poor and destitute of everything, without a home, without a dwelling, without a place to rest, except for this deserted place that does not meet their needs, and without a covering over them. Why did we travel so far to see them? Let's speak the truth. What wondrous sign did we see? Let's tell one another what was revealed to us, and they agree. And then we'll we'll note that in a minute what actually happened. What each of them received a vision of Jesus as they gave their gift. So you did have in the ancient world like a catalomer, is like a kind of hostel, it often gets translated. These were local synagogues and things would set these up to look after the poor and things. So they're not just poor in that they don't have you know second homes and things they can rely on, but they're even down on their luck when they'd gotten there. This hostel or the inn has totally run out of room, and they're just noting that it's like they they've lost, they don't have anything, so they don't even the stuff that's even just given for free. People have gotten their first, so they they're just out of everything. So it's interesting to note that the level of poverty. Now they so each of them Gasper says when he gave the frankincense, he said, I saw him as the Son of God embodied, seated on the throne of glory, with armies of bodiless beings serving him. Wow, so as he gave the gift, he was granted a vision of the identity of Jesus, and here it's the Son of God enthroned in heaven, commander of heaven's armies, with these angelic beings, who are just called bodiless beings. That word, so the word body there kind of means like flesh. Like we see it with uh Paul when he says stuff about the spirit versus flesh, he's not like because every now and then you get like uh an edgelord academic academic who's like, oh, maybe Paul was like a Gnostic sort of thing, and obviously it's not that it's like you know, heaven is like a real place and it's inhabited by somatic, you know, bodily beings in one sense, but it's not body as in flesh and decaying and meat. It's like a meat, so armies of non-meat beings, yeah. So Balthazar then says, when he presented his treasure, he says, Physically, I saw him as the son of man, the son of a king seated on the highest of thrones with countless armies before him. So Gaspar is son of God, Balthazar, son of man, both of them seeing him enthroned on high, we're in charge of many armies. And something interesting about the phrase son of man being associated with glory, because later, you know, showing that this isn't a very late thing, even if we only have a late translation, later the phrase son of man becomes exclusively about him being dejected and suffering and everything. Whereas in like as Jesus uses it, he's like, you'll see the kind of uh son of man coming in glory and judging and surrounded by like son of man to him, to Daniel, to in the book of Enoch, and you know it son of man is this glorious title, it's not about humility and dejection, it's a divine title of divine heavenly glory, such that when Jesus says that he's the son of man, the high priest is totally outraged because he knows it means divine glory. Melkon, the Chinese Magi king, he said, his one, remember, he's the older man, isn't he? And he said, I saw him bodily tortured and dead and risen from the dead. So the older man sees the passion, the sufferings, the death and resurrection of Jesus in his vision, and we're like, Wow. And they were all amazed. They actually then say there's a thing where they say, Let's go back into the cave and see if we can get more visions, and we won't read all that out because essentially they all get the same they each swap visions, basically. So it's an interesting thing Marco Polo and a few others bring up because he interviews people about the wise men, because he goes into China and they all have slightly different, but then also we think it's representing the same thing. In his account that the Chinese and Persians and others gave him, they get their first vision when they're on the road to see Jesus, and they're all debating. He's like, No, no, he's the son of man, and he's like, No, no, he's gonna be the suffering servant. They are all debating this, and then when they see him, they're like, What I I saw what you saw, and all that, and so all their prepared were like about these first visions they had in their own country, and then they later see he's everything, and they're like, Wow, he's all of that at once. Like, we thought, wouldn't it be amazing just to see you're the son of man, wouldn't it be? And they're like, He's everything. So, all of that, so the the visions is that the son of God who rules over the angels, the son of man who rules over the nations, and then there's the lamb of God who dies and rises, and it's like, well, they can't all be the same person, and then they when they gate kneel before him, they're all given the vision of that that brings it all together. Oh, he's he's all of those things, he's the commander of heaven's armies, he's commander over the earthly nations, but he's also the one who shows his glory in suffering death and eventually and resurrection also. So when they've reconciled this in the account, they go and tell the armies, these 12,000 soldiers, truly, he is the son of God who appeared to us in a likeness symbolic of the gifts we presented, and he accepted our greetings with respect and love. So again, how do they know that this little baby's greeting them with respect and love? You'll see, because then it says King Melkon, that's Melchio, the Chinese one, he took the document of the testament. Remember, they've brought that book with them that's been passed down from the time of Adam via Noah. And he presents it to the child, the baby Jesus, and said, Here is the text, the document which we have kept since our forefathers. And then here the child says, Read the very document. So then the instructions for them to read it out, which is what they do, they read it out there and then. Maybe I'll and then we're thinking, Well, what does it say? Well, it actually tells us what it says in they they read out the text of this document handed down from the time of Adam. I'll tell you what, we'll save that till next time.

Contributor

Rev Dr Paul Blackham

Host