The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation

Episode 123 - Why The Magi Bowed In A Cave And Heard A Child Prophesy

• Paul

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A pillar of light leads the way, the star comes to rest, and the cave glows as the Magi step inside. That’s where our journey turns: not to a cosy stable or a tidy guest room, but to an unworked space that echoes the altar “not made by human hands.” We explore why so many early sources—Syriac, Armenian, and beyond—place Jesus’ birth in a cave and how caravanserai archaeology and ritual purity make this setting historically plausible. Along the way, we revisit Luke’s timeline through the Mishmerot priestly courses and the order of Abijah, tracing a calendar where equinox and solstice carry theological weight: John as the brightest of Israel’s sons and Jesus entering the deepest night as light rises again.

Inside the cave, the scene intensifies. The Magi set down their crowns, worship, and hear the child speak peace, identity, and prophecy—darkness at noon, earthquake, ascension. That moment challenges a thin view of “ordinary” humanity. Drawing on Oriental Orthodox insights, we lean into the unity of divinity and humanity in one person: God at full strength present in a true human life. The baby’s radiance and speech do not shrink his humanity; they reveal humanity at full capacity, the kind we were meant to see from the beginning. From there, the Magi’s return unfolds like a new Exodus—endless provision, clothes that do not wear out, and visions that differ without contradiction: lamb, pillar, plain man cleansing the world by blood.

The story ends with mission, not myth. Thomas arrives in the East by the Lord’s will, performing signs and strengthening faith, reminding us that Christianity’s early map stretches far beyond our usual lines. If your nativity imagination has been shaped by wooden slats and greeting-card stables, this conversation offers a wider frame: a cave, a calendar, and a Christ whose presence fills both. Listen, reflect, and tell us—does this reshape how you see Bethlehem, the date of Christmas, and the meaning of true humanity?

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find these conversations.

The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore

Rev Dr PRB:

Well, welcome to the next episode of Christ Center Cosmic Civilization, and we're still looking at the Magi, and we will be for a couple more episodes while we continue looking at this early document, possibly from parts of it from the second century. But there's another one we're gonna look at from Armenia, but we'll get to that in a week or so. But what we've where we've got to with the Magi is they got to Jerusalem, they had difficulty with Herod, and now the Magi are gonna go and visit Bethlehem and see the baby Jesus for themselves. And it says this, I'm gonna read again from this book, Revelations of the Magi. We went and entered Bethlehem with joy. We all went to the house where our guide was born, and that the guide there is Jesus. They go where we go, because they've had this view that it's kind of Jesus who's travelled with them, as well as him being in the womb of Mary and being born in Bethlehem, that that he's also, in a sense, been with them, and that's that's an interesting thing. Now, here they say we saw a cave, and it looked just like the cave of treasures of hidden mysteries in our country. We saw the pillar of light, it came down as we'd seen it before, and it stood in front of the cave. The star of light came down and stood above the pillar. Angels were on its right side and its left side. When we saw it, we rejoiced, though we were still afraid. The pillar, the star, the angels. They all entered the cave, they went ahead of us into the cave. The mystery and light of salvation was born there. Now you'll see, first of all, it's interesting that they've got, remember, Jesus is sort of travelling with them in the form of a pillar of light, but also the star is tra travels with them, and then there are angels present. So we've got a like um a divine companion, an angelic companion, and then say a heavenly companion as the star, and all of them go into what is very clearly a cave. Now we'll see that in other accounts of the infancy of Jesus, the birth narratives, like of these quite early accounts, we'll see it in the Armenian birth narrative, which we'll look at next week. They they also talk about it being a cave that Jesus is born in. Now, well, let's just we'll ask Get PJ to talk about this for a minute because traditionally on Christmas carols, it's a stable in Christmas, well, in carols, but also cards, where we get a wooden stable that's with with animals milling around in a stable environment. More recently, it's become very fashionable to have Jesus staying at a kind of detached house in guest quarters, how you know, basically having him as much more middle class Jesus. And I can see why people prefer a middle class Jesus staying in a detached house in the guest quarters, but traditionally on Christmas cards, he's in a stable wooden structure. But here it's a cave, and I w what is that about? Like, is it is it because people kept their animals in caves and the cave was functioning as a stable? Is there anything in the Bible about to clarify where it what was the what was the kind of building or container in which Jesus and the Holy Family were here? And of course, just before I hand over to PJ on this, it you can see that the Magi are almost expecting it to be a cave because they've been hanging around for well, and their their ancestors, the cave of the hidden mysteries in their own country, that was a cave in which the documents and gifts were kept. So they're kind of expecting this treasure to be in a cave, also. What do you think, PJ, from the Global Church History Project? Cave, stable, or middle class living quarters? I think the sort of living quarters thing has come up recently, hasn't it? Where it's that sort of or just that the idea Jesus just had a very large extended family, which meant he could always be very comfortable. But a part of the problem I have with that particular narrative is the presence of animals in a central space shared basically in the living room, is central to the idea. Because it's like the idea that they've got this very middle-class home, but there's just animals right in the middle of it, which kind of well, not just kind of strongly goes against the cleanliness laws that dominate all of Jewish life at the time. So it's and from a lot of the archaeology I've seen, I know there's you know, this will obviously change from place to place, and you know, but from what I've seen, there are complex rooms and layers and ways of keeping animals separate so that because it's a huge hassle, like ritually cleansing yourself and all of this in the law of Moses. And if you have to do it every single time you go to the front door, you you would never be able to celebrate in the temple or anything. It's just a very impractical way to run your house to have it in such a form that there were constant sources of uncleanness in your living room, yeah. Yeah. So I just don't believe it. And a lot of it comes from like modern so like what Jews did after the destruction of temple, so then at that point they no longer care about cleanliness. Like what Jews are today is almost unrecognizable from what Jews were at the time of Jesus. We can't look at modern Jewish or even medieval or even late antique Jewish customs and as at all representative of what they do when the temple's there. Everything's all about the temple in the time of Jesus and the apostles, and then afterwards it isn't at all. And so, yeah, afterwards they're like, oh sure, whatever, have animals milling around and you're always unclean. That's irrelevant to what's going on when the temple's still around. And that's very much the case, you know. They in Bethlehem they are somewhat near Jerusalem. They are, you know six miles away, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the holy family, you know, Luke mentions the holy family are very what do you call meticulous about attending everything in Jerusalem? He mentions that. So they're not at all um likely to be always unclean. They and they like being at Bethlehem at least early on, yeah. So they could always reach Jerusalem. And yet, as you say, the archaeology just doesn't support a lot of these new ideas of having a middle class Jesus. But what about the idea of a wooden stable? Yeah, so that one you could just get that from the text, and that would be fine, because it obviously has to be a stable attached to a lodging, you know, of some sort. And so when we look archaeologically, we see caravanserais are like everywhere. In so when the Persians invaded, they set up caravanserais and they stay all throughout the Roman period because they're very useful, but the Romans also set up their kind of inns. So there's a huge hospitality sector in first century Judea and the other kingdoms in the area. So it's very reasonable that people tend to kind of go for an inn, a wooden sort of inn, and then a wooden stable nearby. But yeah, most ancient depictions show a cave that is functioning as a stable. I think there is something about a structure that isn't made with human hands that always struck people as not fitting. Oh yeah, to be born in a cave, a structure not made by human hands, which takes you back to how the altar in the Mosaic law, you know, and make it without minimum human involvement as possible. Oh yeah, I not thought about that. Yeah, no, it's got to be a cave then, attached to a hotel. When Solomon's making a house that can contain the living god, like there can be no sound of craftsmanship. Oh, that's right. It all has to be made in another country. So it's like that's even applied anywhere where the Lord is contained, human work can't contribute to it. Oh, that's it. It's gotta be a cave. And the cave is more like womb-like as well, or you know, the whole idea. But no, that is it. You've clinched it. It's because of the Solomon references and everything, the the lack of you know, human building. I like that. That's that makes a lot of sense. So it's a cave that's attached to a kind of motel. A Persian and then Roman motel. Yeah. And the motel's full, because it's the holiday season, of course. Yeah, you know, at Christmas you just can't get uh stuff from that. And it was obviously because when you look at Luke, because we can know exactly when Christmas happens, because people often think, oh, in the early church they just sort of made it. Let's deal with that. Like, is it is it is it is it is why is it at that time? Is that just guesswork? Or is it actually a pagan thing and that uh Christians are are kind of actually secretly worshipping something pagan? So what we find when we look in the Gospel of Luke is he does actually give us the time of year everything's happening in. Right. Because a key part of Second Temple, so again, like people often look at the modern Jewish calendar and they're like, oh, this doesn't match up, and it's like, forget the modern Jewish anything, it's got no relevance. Uh in the Second Temple period, what they've got are calendars known as Mishmerot calendars, and that's based on when King David divided the duties of the high priest between descendants of Aaron, and they all take turns, and then whoever's turn it is in the year has a week, and then so you know exactly what week anything happens, and you would say, instead of saying, you know, the 3rd of May or whatever, you'd go, the order of Abijah, and that's what Luke does when he says that the conception of the prophet John happens in the or just after the order of Abijah when Zechariah comes home. So then the conception of Jesus in the womb of Mary happens six months later. So yeah, that's important. So then you're thinking, oh, where does Abijah happen? The order of Abijah, when is that? That's the autumnal equinox, or just before the autumnal equinox, so when he comes home and he conceives John, that's around the autumnal equinox. So that's really important because that's the day when it's just as bright as it is dark. It's equinox means equal night, but things are getting darker, it's like the end of sort of Israel in that sense, and then he's going to be born nine months later in the summer solstice, the brightest, longest day of the year, because he's the greatest man who's ever lived. He's like the best. So it's like at the end of Israel, but he's the best Israel ever produced. That's John. So, but then Jesus is conceived six months after John is conceived. So that's the spring equinox. So that is the again equal day, equal night, but things are getting brighter. So we're coming out of the darkness, and then here's Jesus, and then he's born at this winter solstice, the shortest day of the year, the longest night, when everything's darkest, but just as things are about to get bright again, he comes into the utmost darkness. So there's so much meaning in it that it can't be a coincidence. And apart from you know, it's just literally what Luke says. He's like, he is conceived in the order of Abijah. So you do have Hanukkah that is celebrated in the ancient world. Festival of light at that time of year, where the light's about to get more and more. Yeah. Yeah, and it's mentioned in John, Jesus celebrated it, and it's um you can read more about the circumstances of it in a book called like one and two Maccabees. Two Maccabees mentions it more, and why they moved the festival of tabernacles into the winter. And we see Jesus, when we look at John's thing, he celebrates tabernacles in winter. It literally one of those very short verses, it just says, And it was winter. So he either So in the bleak midwinter's a good carol, too. Yeah, it's all biblical and it is very thorough, and it's one of these things where there's been so much historical scholarship over thousands of years, but people just assume tradition is always empty and vain, so then they're like, Oh, get rid of it, let's just start again. And they they're just always like, Oh, everyone says this, but they don't, you know, there's no evidence for that, and they're not actually looking at the tradition, what the people who were passing on the traditions and coming up with the traditions said, and there's actually a lot to it. There's they've really thought about it. I have to say, I you've shown me that over the years. That I've often thought, oh, I wonder why we always think this with some tradition or festival or something. And in my mind, I'm often like, uh, there probably's the nothing to it. And then you've taken me through all this evidence that's both biblical, historical, archaeological. And nearly always I go away thinking, oh my, there's like it, it's it's the it has to be done at that time, and it has to be done this way. So that is fascinating. So we're happy with it being a cave attached to like a motel, isn't it? A motel, like a Persian, the Persians invented these kind of motels. And the thing with the caravanseris is they've got equal amount of rooms and then stables, but they keep the stables all separate so that you've got a nice sort of area. So it means they've got tons of stables, so you can imagine in a caravanserai setting, exactly why they would do this. They're like, Oh, we've run out of rooms, but you could go in a stable, there is technically room there. You can see why they would essentially open it. That would be a totally obvious option, yeah. Great. So, anyway, that's what the Magi say. The the so that's the end of it, you know. From the second century, the Magi say, Well, they were they were in a cave, and in fact, the pillar of light that is Jesus, like in a different form, you know. I as we said last time, I don't totally understand how Jesus is doing that, but I suppose he does a lot of things I don't understand. The star is present, and the angels, and they all verify that Jesus is in a cave. Now then, what happens next is something we just need to take a moment to grasp and meditate on because we're gonna get it here in a big way, and then we get it in other accounts of the birth of Jesus from other traditions and sources, but here is one of the strongest forms of it. Now, before I tell you what it is, I'm gonna go to one of my favourite carols actually by Paul Gerhardt, translated by Catherine Winkworth in 1858. Paul Gerhardt's carol is from 1656, and it's the whole all my heart this night rejoices as I hear far and near sweetest angel voices Christ is born the choirs are singing, till the air everyone now with joy is ringing. But then verse two says Hark a voice from yonder manger, soft and sweet doth entreat, flee from woe and danger, brethren come from all that grieves you. You are freed, all you need I will surely give you. So there we have it in that carol, the baby Jesus is speaking. Speaking. We get that in that other carol a way where he doesn't no cry away in a manger has him no crying he makes because he's not a normal regular baby. He's fully human, of course, but it's not intrinsic to humanity to cry. And so this one he isn't he has no cursed humanity, he's not a sinful person, he doesn't cry because that isn't crying is not intrinsic to humanity. So that away in a manger has that idea that yes, his humanity is 100% real, but it isn't accompanied with sorrow in the way that our humanity, fallen, broken humanity, is. But here, so in the Paul Gerhard Carol, it goes a step further to have him as talking even as a baby. Yeah, did you want to comment on that before we get into what the Magi tell us he said? Because we'd thought about how an early Pope, Saint Leo the Great, had been like, oh no, he's definitely not talking, and then you know, it's just gonna be a normal human messy birth, all of that sort of stuff. He gets into that. Whereas later at the Council of Trent, you get a different Pope who's very much like the opposite. He's like, No, it's definitely totally unlike that because he has in the the fall curse. It's like if you're gonna be conceiving and bearing fallen children, this is gonna be extremely painful. That's part of the curse. And then they're like, Well, that can't apply to Jesus, who's not under this, you know, curse until he does deliberately take it on himself, but you know, he's conceived totally without sin and all that, so it's like that doesn't apply. So then they totally objected to any depiction of the birth being painful or you know or messy, yeah. Yeah, they were so it you know it sort of goes, you can see just in that one tradition of what's you know the city of Rome, goes back and forth over the centuries, and they're at one point they're like, No, you've just gotta have totally regular, ordinary, unassuming sort of circumstances, and then later it's like, no, you it's like blasphemous to show it as that way. Yeah, and you get it with art around Christmas that some people love to depict him like almost in gloom and mess, like emphasizing that there's nothing nothing unusual about his birth, in order, I guess, for the trying to understand why people would do that, they're wanting to assert his full humanity, because in their minds, humanity equals darkness, curse, and pain. But then there's this other tradition that's like, what are you talking about? This is the birth of the god man, that the the set you know, the central event of history kind of thing, and the stars are involved, and animals and unicorns and angels, and and then that those sort of depicting him have him is glowing, and there's you know, the baby is effusing light, and uh, you know, everything is not just the normal run of the mill. He is entirely human, but humanity isn't supposed to have darkness, curse, and pain. And he's like this assertion in the middle of history that humanity is not what you thought it was, kind of thing. And again, as we started this sort of series talking about Leo, and we were talking about that idea like you've got to have one person who's Jesus who has this continuous single consciousness and that sort of thing, and that's what everyone was fighting about, and Leo was trying. To defend, but for a lot of people, if you've got it, so like he just doesn't talk anymore. Well, it's like, well, he did almost nothing but talking, you know, throughout for millennia. That was his main job. He just appears to people and talks, and then suddenly he's like forgotten. But it's like, no, it's the same person who's very used to talking, who's very eloquent, who you know, and his tongue might be larger because babies kind of are and all that. He might have a lisp, but like, you know, he's able to talk, and he if he could focus, and obviously he's a very focused person, he probably could, you know, there's that feeling, it's like, well, it's the same person with the same consciousness. There's not a new person who's just like, oh, like what's going on? It's like this is the same person, and he and as he remembered throughout the Gospels, he's always just remembering what happened before he was born. Yeah, that's right. John 17, he remembers existing with the Father before the universe began. And again, no hu no regular human can can do such a thing. Even if they had existed at such a point, how can a brain remember something that occurred before that brain ever even existed, kind of thing? So it's I always think it's I can kind of laughable when people attempt to contain Jesus entirely within the confounds of fallen, temporal, mortal humanity. This I I see, I'm like, because of Leo, and I'm like, I get, yeah, you know, he's trying to make don't forget he's a real physical solid 100% human. And it's like, no, yeah, what we get that, yeah, it just depends what what we mean by humanity. Well, here, let's get this. What let me read from the the revelations of the magi. They say this so they've gone into the cave, and it's getting pretty crowded in there with the angels, the star, magi. They don't mention all the different animals, especially only a little bit, but we can get into those in a anyway. This is what they say: a kind voice instructed us enter inside. We followed it in, we took off our crowns, we put them under his feet because the everlasting kingdom belongs to him. We knelt and worshipped before him on the ground. Every knee in heaven and on earth bows and worships him. We opened our hidden sealed treasures, we took them out and came near the treasure of salvation. He is sealed with heavenly majesty. We brought out our treasures to him, who is the treasure of salvation. So we're just up there, because initially then it is Jesus calls to them to because they're hesitating to come into the cave. And Jesus calls to them and basically says, like in Paul Gerhardt's one, the heart the voice from yonder manger entreats them to come, to come to him, and that's what that's what we get here. He just says, Come, come inside, and so they go in. But before we listen to what else he has to say, isn't it interesting that they take off their crowns and put them at his feet because they recognize his that he is the king over all kings, but also he is to be worshipped, and they see in him the true treasure. So remember, they had a cave of treasures with hidden mysteries. Now they've come into this cave, they say we found the real treasure, the treasure of salvation, who is sealed with heavenly majesty. So they immediately see in him divinity, kingship, salvation. That's amazing, isn't it? And I think like throughout their story, they sort of have this sort of mediated presence of Jesus, and it has really been Jesus talking to them and all of that, but then it's like as they keep sort of journeying towards the God man who's born in Bethlehem, that's you know, God at full strength. So for you know, you get for Gnostics and everything, it's that, oh, if you can get a version of Jesus that's just contemplating, that's just information and stuff, that's like the best, and you don't want to get distracted. Whereas it's the opposite, they've got all this information about him, they've even sort of seen him at a distance, but like going in towards the physical baby Jesus, that's like that's God at full strength, and they're like, This is the best treasure, you know, this is the real, this is the real deal, and that so there's always that it's like, oh, I have been with you, but like you've got to really come to me, and it is Jesus as a baby. That's hugely important, isn't it? That to they they've known him intellectually, but that is vastly inferior than knowing him in physical presence, and that is a huge countercultural thing to that kind of tradition of neo-plath neoplatonic Christianity in which the physical is downplayed and the intellectual is the only real thing, and the magi are like, What are you talking about? Thinking about him is good, meeting him is better. So that's what happens, and then they what happens then? So they worship him, and then it says this the glorious baby opened his mouth. He spoke to us with great sweet love and mercy. Peace to you, sons of my hidden mysteries, sons of the east of the heavenly light. You have been found worthy to see the ancient everlasting light. It was I who was revealed to you in your land. I spoke with you through mysteries, and I became your guide and leader to this place. And then I'll just read a little bit more of what Jesus said. He says, after a bit, he says, I will give you another sign that something will happen. You'll be amazed, you will see the sun darken during the day like the night. There will be a great earthquake on earth, the voices of the dead will be heard from their graves giving praise, and at that time know that all the ages and seasons have ended with my coming to you. Look up to the heavens, you will see them open in glory before me. I will ascend with the praise that is right for me, and I will sit at the right hand of the Father of Majesty. He is the one who sent me to save the world. And then it concludes, The Saviour spoke all these things to us. The entire cave shone. It looked like another world to us. There was no light like it in this world. Many voices of seraphs were speaking, and they were saying, Yes and Amen, firstborn opener of the secret womb, holy infant infant, completer of the heavenly majesty's will, and so on. So, what's interesting about this is that it's Jesus initially just says, Yes, come in, and we're maybe like, Oh, yeah, okay, maybe he could do something like that. But when he actually goes on to talk to them like with total clarity, and he re greets them as visitors from another country that he's led there, and then he actually prophesies his own death and ascension. Death and kind of implicitly resurrection, but definitely ascension. All of this, and then there are angels that are audibly worshiping him and declaring his praises also. This is a very different view of Jesus. Now, how do we, PJ, reconcile? Because what the the the idea, I think, often in it is the idea that Jesus is entirely enclosed within his humanity. So they would say the divin basically he is his humanity is the most important almost part, and then there is his divinity, but that kind of operates in a different way, almost, isn't it? It's almost as like there is the human Jesus, and he's just like exactly like every other human, and then there's the divine Christ that is adjacent to the human Jesus, and the divine Christ like knows everything, performs miracles, is running the universe, and it's as if there's the div the human Jesus who's just like a totally ordinary human, a divine Christ who's running the universe and knows everything, and these two are adjacent to one another, and then the idea is when they come to see the baby, they're just encountering the human Jesus, but they're not really there is no divine Christ sites. Do you know what I'm saying? That's a very common way of approaching who Jesus is in the Western world, perhaps, but these documents come from Asia and from really what we would call Oriental Orthodox Christianity, where they don't think of Jesus that way. What how does that change this way that having a baby that can talk? Yeah, that you've got just the real reality is Jesus there in the flesh, that's God at full strength, and it really is, because if you think you've got this massive extra Christ that's like everywhere, it's like, well, the full strength of God is just like everywhere else, and this is just one little portion separate, so you think it just doesn't uh make sense really of all of scripture, and then we think how much if you just think of and we we've talked a lot about uh Nicaea this year, so we've thought a lot about these categories of what's an oosia and all of that, but if you've just got the category of what it means to be divine and the category of what it means to be human, weren't they always meant to be um compatible? Like when we we were made in God's image and all of this, they were meant to be. So is it really the case that you couldn't have someone in just one instance fit the category of God and human? It seems as if humanity was designed to be exactly that, and so there's no need to keep them in these like why can't you have a person who is divine human? Like the one thing, not two things. Yeah. So they he's fully human, he's fully divine, but he's one thing, one divine human, and so that's what the Oriental Orthodox Church, that's in Asia and Arabia and Africa, or certainly East Africa, they tend to be very strong on this idea that Jesus is one thing, a union of divinity and humanity, fully human, fully divine, but united together as one thing. And rather than keeping these in two separate categories, it's uniting the divinity and the humanity together in one person. So I find that quite often one set of Christianity will always say, Jesus is two natures, one person, two natures, and the emphasis is on the two natures. Whereas this other stream of Christianity will say, you know, it's two natures, one person, and it's the oneness of him that's the dominant thing. So he is fully divine, to fully human, but one. But that means if you if you're comfortable with that, that he is a divine human and he's one thing, it's much easier then to see to how to see this aspect of him. Where as a baby, he is not like human, like other humans, that he is a divine human who, even as a baby, can act in ways that are not typical for fallen, broken, sinful, dying human humanity as we know it. He's like a a truer, fuller, richer kind of humanity. And he and he retains in his mind knowledge of who he is and the world and everything like that. And we see like even uh saints in the Bible, like people who have been made like Christ, but they're not, you know, in full strength. But you get like the you get like the Apostle Paul, he knows about stuff the church has been doing because he's been with them in spirit. Like he's got, you know, he's able, like how who knows how he did it, but so in the same way where Jesus is like present somewhere else, and people are like, oh, so that's like you know, is that is, but it's like, well, Paul's able to do that, and then I think as well, Elisha went with Gehazi, his spirit no, his spirit went with uh Gehazi and found out what he was doing. So that sort of thing is actually what human beings are supposed to be able to do, and you know, you get like Doctor Strange sort of do it, but then it's like and so then people are like, Oh, it's a silly thing because it's in a comic book, but then it's like it also happens surprisingly often in the Bible, yeah. So that sort of thing, but it's like the real, obviously, the real Elisha is there in the the sort of hut, sort of, and then the real Paul was in Ephesus or wherever he was, you know. But there's this idea then that we assume true humanity is deficient humanity or reduced or you know, fragmentary humanity. And what we do is we'll say we know what humanity, the maximum limits of humanity, we know what that is, because we are it. And then there's this other perspective that says, no, we only really know a very, very limited understanding of humanity, which is very reduced and very incapable compared to what humanity was designed to be, and then when Jesus is born, he is like humanity at its full capacity, full capacity, and this that's this vision of the incarnate Jesus, that he is the God man, fully as one thing, a fully divine human, and that there are things that he does and knows, and the way he speaks, and all of these things are utter are unique to him and not like any other human child. So the possibility that he was glowing with divine radiance even as a baby, one set of Christians goes, That's a terrible idea, because I feel he's got to be not like that. Like if he's gonna be a real human, he has to be dark and gloomy and sad. Whereas there's this other vision that says, No, like that's like that's what we are, because we're like not really human, like we're we're only partially human. He's the full human, the proper human, as Luther calls him. And so real humanity is joyful, radiant, full of knowledge, full of wisdom, full of capability, and so on. I just feel that it comes up so often in these accounts the idea that the baby Jesus was capable of talking that I've had to revisit it and go, wow, okay, so Paul Gerhart's onto something in his old carol, and the Magi really do see and they record a lot. I mean, we won't read it all now, but they record a lot of these things Jesus says as he's comforting them and encouraging them, and they seem to cope with this. And you get like in Acts when Stephen's preaching, and he sort of uh retells the whole story of scripture, and he does just say like when people looked at the baby Moses, they knew he wasn't an ordinary baby. That's true. Yeah, they could look at him, and he was presumably glowing or radiant. They are he's no ordinary child. Yeah, so that is a that has a precedent in the Bible, the idea that a baby somehow exudes some character that is indicative that they're the of their destiny. Well, there it is, they they listen to Jesus, they leave his presence with great joy and excitement, praising him, and they leave the cave, and Mary and Joseph follow them out of the cave, and I think he's like, Who's looking after the baby? I guess the unicorn is and the angels, and possibly the shepherds if they're hanging around, or maybe they think he doesn't need looking after, whatever. But they go out and they're initially a little bit nervous because this pillar of light travels with the Magi as they leave, and she's uh in they say that she's a bit nervous that that is Jesus leaving with them, but then there's reassurance, no no, he's he is the like the incarnate son is with you, remains with you, and they go back, Mary goes back in and finds the child of light, and he's laughing and praising and so on, and that's them, and they praise and thank the father and so on. And then the magi say they return to their camp and the the light, the sign of light appears to them again in front of them, but not the star now. The star seems to have retired, completed the task of leading them to the birth of the god man, the center of the universe, kind of thing, and then the star's done that job. But the pillar of light, who is some in some form a manifestation of Jesus, stays with them, and they again rejoice and they're greatly excited, and they worship, and and so on, and then they all have a vision of Jesus again, and they oh, and again they find that on the journey back they eat food and it's always replenished, and their clothes don't wear out, and they're not exhausted by the journey, again, reminiscent of the wilderness wanderings, the going back through the wilderness, and again, his presence with them gives them this feeling of you know that like like this is how creation's supposed to be. That you were there isn't supposed to be a fighting to get enough to eat, there isn't supposed to be exhaustion, there isn't supposed to be decay, there isn't supposed to be all these problems, and it's almost like in his presence these things don't exist. So that's again going back to the idea of the baby Jesus capable of things that are extraordinary or to us inconceivable, even. But they do that, but one of the interesting things again is they as they travel back and get to the borders of their own land, and then all these kind of people are waiting for them from their own countries, and there's much rejoicing, and so on, and then people eat the food that's been miraculously provided, and every and people have visions of Jesus, but again, everybody sees something different, and again, I'll just read this a little bit. One of them said, The moment I ate this food, I saw a great light without equal in the world. Another said, I saw God showing himself in the world. Another said, I saw a star of light, and its light made the sun dark. Another said, I saw a human being who looked plainer than any man, but he is saving and cleaning the world with his blood. Another said, I saw something like a lamb hanging on a tree of life. Redemption for all the world's creatures comes through him in his blood. Another said, I saw a pillar of light diving down inside the earth, and the dead rose to meet it, and they worshipped and praised. So again, that idea then, we've seen it earlier, is this multiple visions of Jesus, all the different facets of him, and no one vision can fully contain him. I don't know if you want to comment on that before we well, well, you let's just pull it all together and then I'll hand it over to you to tell us what to think about this in its historical context. So they get back, they explain what's happened to them, everyone's happy, and the people have visions of Jesus, and then the knowledge of him they start to disseminate throughout the lands. But right at the end it says later, Thomas, the Apostle Thomas, this is the conclusion to this book, Revelations of the Magi. Thomas went there by the will of our Lord, sent by him. The faith grew even more in those who heard Thomas. This was because of the many powerful works and signs that Judas Thomas, the Lord's apostle, was doing there. And then people greeted him with love and rejoicing. So what do you make of that? Like the journey back with multiple visions of Jesus, the way it's like the wilderness wanderers. But most of all, what do you make of the fact that Thomas rolls up and they want to record that? So he, yeah, this is, I think, probably among the earliest. Although I think there's an Indian liturgy that also references, but this is among the earliest references to the Apostle Thomas preaching in China. A bit later, you had St. John Chrysostom doesn't like list all the places he went, because he just said he preached just about everywhere, the Apostle Thomas. He was an incredibly prolific man. The person who had sort of the least faith in this sort of aftermath of the resurrection, he ends up kinda. And you know, the stories of him he could run across the Himalayas, and it would be a very dangerous thing to do, even people who've lived there all their lives. But they he just had with each step, he just had absolute faith and trust. So we could just run at totally uneven ground, and then across water, there's another story. He even went to the Amazon, and then uh there were some Amazonian tribes that were trying to kill him because they hated what he was saying. So then they chase him to the river and they're like, We've got him, and then they start hurling their spears at him, but then he runs across the water safely to the other side, and then once they realise, like, oh no, he he's actually is who he says he is, then he can preach to them. That sort of thing. So this is the Apostle Thomas, he's an incredible person, and the Lord sort of um you know, he gives that stern word, or maybe not super stern, but uh a word, you know, it it would be better if you did believe even without seeing, but then he does build a map so he becomes an incredible person, and so this is one of the earliest references to that, and yeah, he's not one of our favourites. And of course, like in your book of the twelve, which is available from online retailers, you've got tons about him in there. Well, that's enough for this week. We're gonna look at one more account of the Magi's visit, this time from an arm a very early Armenian narrative, and then we may, if we've got time in future weeks, maybe look at the individual Magi more.

Contributor

Rev Dr Paul Blackham

Host