The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Christ is the One in Whom in all things consist and humanity is not the measure of all things. If a defining characteristic of the modern world is disorder then the most fundamental act of resistance is to discover and life according to the deep, divine order of the heavens and the earth.
In this podcast we want to look at the big model of the universe that the Bible and Christian history provides.
It is a mind and heart expanding vision of reality.
It is not confined to the limits of our bodily senses - but tries to embrace levels fo reality that are not normally accessible or tangible to our exiled life on earth.
We live on this side of the cosmic curtain - and therefore the highest and greatest dimensions of reality are hidden to us… yet these dimensions exist and are the most fundamental framework for the whole of the heavens and the earth.
Throughout this series we want to pick away at all the threads of reality to see how they all join together - how they all find common meaning and reason in the great divine logic - the One who is the Logos, the LORD Jesus Christ - the greatest that both heaven and earth has to offer.
Colossians 1:15-23
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The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Episiode 122 - From Purifying Springs To Jerusalem, The Magi Follow A Star Brighter Than The Sun
A secret cave. Seven trees circling a spring. A pillar of light that outshines the sun. We follow an ancient Syriac tradition—the Revelations of the Magi—to uncover a world where time is kept by the moon, gifts are guarded for generations, and a living star carries heaven’s message to earth.
We start on the mountain of victories, where the Magi purify themselves on the twenty-fifth day, pray at the cave on the first, and examine the treasures on the third. This ritual rhythm isn’t filler; it forms watchful hearts and a culture of expectancy. When “the time came,” heaven opens like a gate and “men of glory” bear a star in their hands. The light speaks in a humble human form, naming the cross and the resurrection before Bethlehem comes into view. We weigh the bold claim that this is no comet or planetary dance but a theophany—a personal, guiding presence that the ancients would recognise as more than sky-lore.
What follows is both strange and beautiful: each Magus reports a different vision of the same Christ—child beyond words, poor and humble man, crucified redeemer, conqueror of death, ascending king. Rather than contradiction, we see a prism of glory where one Lord shows many facets. We pause on the christological tension of presence—how the text speaks of Christ with the Magi, in Mary’s womb, and with the Father—and map it to debates across Ethiopian, Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, and Reformed thought.
Then the road opens. The star leads like fire and cloud; strength replaces fatigue; provisions increase; rivers pose no threat. The journey becomes a new Exodus and a preview of new creation, the kind of travel where the sun and moon fade in a higher light. By the time the caravan reaches the region of Jerusalem in April, we’ve reimagined the Nativity from the eastward side—disciplined waiting, holy seeing, and a guide who is not an object but a messenger.
If this reframes the Magi for you, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves ancient sources, and leave a review with the moment that most surprised you.
The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore
Well, welcome to the next episode of the Christ-centered cosmic civilization as we continue to explore the revelations of the Magi, this ancient book from at least portions of it from the second century, which purports to be written by at least some of the Magi and details the backstory to the visit of the Magi. And we've seen how the story goes back to the time of Adam and Seth, and knowledge is passed down in book form through Noah and on, and how preparations were made to be ready for the birth of God, the fulfilment of the promise of Genesis 3.15, and gifts were prepared also, and we'll we'll see a little bit more about that in this this week as we go further into the revelations of the Magi. So without further ado, I'm gonna get into this more quotations, and we've had this idea that the gifts have been preserved in in the cave of the tra of treasures of mysteries. But it the what I wanted to do it is in the book, the they're told in the traditions that have been passed down to them from the ancients. They are to be careful and to command your sons, it says. And if the star's light does not come in your lifetime, have your sons tell their sons, do this until the mysteries and revelations written about his coming come true. So that's that's what's been upon them, and for many generations, these these wise men and kings of the East, and we've seen that there at least some of them are from China, uh bordering the Pacific Ocean, and this has been passed down to them, and they've had this very, very high view of the divine messiah who's going to be born, and they everything that they have connected to this, the books, the gifts, everything, has been preserved in something that they call the cave of treasures, the cave of the treasures of the mysteries, and that's on the mountain of victories. And we don't know where that those are, those that location is, because of course we thought they must have had to keep that secret. But this they had in each generation, it looks as if some of the sons of the kings would be appointed to basically live at the cave uh live on the mountain of victories near to this cave of treasures to wait, and and each month there seem to be at least three ritual days, which they did they're basically if they're doing a lunar month, and PJ thinks they probably are doing a lunar month, that the it there's there's what the rituals are are grouped so that there's one on day 25, one on day one, and one on day three. So that's really like almost like a mu a week. Uh that all of those would be included within a week at the end of one month and at the beginning of the next month. So it could be that for three weeks they could go away and get things done, but they all had to conglomerate together at the end of one lunar month, and at the beginning of the next lunar month, they would all gather together to perform kind of rituals of waiting and preserving it. So let me read from that. It says Yeah, we we we went to the cave to the mountain of victories, we we all gathered at the foothills, we came from our homes, and we'll think in future episodes of where what homes these magi may be coming from, what kingdoms and empires. But they came, it says, and they gathered at the foothills, so they were living together at the foothills of the mountain of victories, and it says here we stayed in one place to purify ourselves on the twenty-fifth day of each month. And that's interesting, then. So they purify themselves at the beginning of this week together, and this is how they did it. It says this we bathed in a spring at the foothills of the mountain. The spring is called the spring of purification. Seven trees stood around it: an olive tree, a vine, a myrtle, a cypress, an orange, a cedar, and a juniper. And then they they talk about how the mountain's beautiful and the smell of the of the of the spring, the water is is amazing, smell and things. But there we go, what do you make of this? That they are purifying themselves, and that there are these seven trees around the spring of purification.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's interesting that the people who were in charge of preserving these mysteries, perhaps because it's in China and you've got that idea of Feng Shui, where like to have the to be able to really be perceptive of mysteries and truth and to be in the right mindset, you've got to have the decor and the smell of things, and all of that has to be right, and so it's interesting these Chinese rulers have decided to make this cave of mysteries all well designed, you know, in terms of interior design and all this sort of thing, and then for there to be a sort of garden, uh a Zen garden's like a Japanese thing, but I think there's Chinese equivalents, so it's interesting that.
SPEAKER_00:And these trees, I I am sure that they will each be representative or symbolic of things that the you know, the fact that there are seven of them, seven days in a week, and so on, and that an olive, a vine, a myrtle, a cypress, an orange, a cedar, a juniper. I haven't actually done the research of where these occur in the Bible. The olive, the vine, the myrtle. I mean, I can think of some references in my head, but now I'm wishing I'd look them all up because I'm sure that there's great significance in them. So they have this purification time where they bathe, I guess, in the spring of purification to wash themselves outwardly, but presumably that was a trigger for them to be clean inwardly also, and then they'd have these few days of preparation, three full days of preparation after of purification. And then it says, and now going back to the book, here's a quotation When the first day of the month came, we climbed to the top of the mountain, we stood before the entrance of the cave of treasures of hidden mysteries, we knelt and stretched our hands to heaven, we prayed and worshipped silently, we prayed to the Father of that heavenly majesty, he is beyond words and is infinite forever. And then on the third day of the month we entered the cave, we went to the treasures. These treasures were prepared as the stars' own gifts. They were for the worship of that light we were waiting for. So there we go. They prepare purify themselves, then they go up the mountain, and then on the third day, they go into the cave to check that the gifts are alright.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and if you want on that particular like what what day's which and everything, if you want to read more about that, Saint Bede has a book called The Book of Timekeeping, and he goes into what's the biblical method of calculating time. But Philo also says that he mentions how you'd have people on a watchtower and they'd try and look at what a new moon is and then they'd announce it. So that idea that you have exactly 28 days, that was important to a lot of ancient Christians because there's a lot of um times in the Bible that will just mention what day of the month it is, and you've got to figure out what day of the year it is from that. And you can do in this idea of it, so that in a side reel lunar calendar, it takes like the month, takes the moon 27 days to reach the exact same point in the sky. So then if you calculate from the next day over, like when it's starting a new sort of cycle, you get to 28 days, and so that's what Philo and Bede and the others say. And so it's worth just noting that, and then what next time you're reading through the Bible, note when it says, you know, on this day of the month, you just add, you go like the first day of the month, then is a Sunday, and then just add on from there. What day of the week is it? Because that might be important, that you know, maybe some people die on a Friday, and then you think, wow, that's you know, an interesting day for that to happen. And then it was also in the early church a huge dispute between then once everyone moved to Julius Caesar's calendar or Alexander's calendar, lunar solar versions, how do you carry that across where days don't match up properly? But for systems where it did, and like in this Syriac sort of book, it sort of does still work that way. That's what we've got to keep in mind. But then, not just for this book, it's worth keeping that in mind for the Bible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so they would meet on Thursday for purification, Sunday for worship, and then Tuesday, that was when they'd examine the treasures. Okay, now the book then tells, so all of that is just background, everything we've done so far is background, and then it says in this book of the revelations of the Magi, it says, the time came. Everything written in the books about the star's light being revealed was fulfilled. Each of us saw wonderful and different visions we'd never seen before. And so what happened was when they have these visions that are telling them the time has come, it says each of us came from his home, as was our old custom. So they'd all perhaps gone back to their homes wherever they were, and then they quickly travelled, and it says we went up the mountain of victories, washed in the spring of purification as we always did, and then it says this we saw an indescribable pillar of light. It came down and rested above the water. We were afraid and trembled when we saw it. We cannot describe the star's brilliant light. Its brightness was many times greater than the sun. We rejoiced and praised God. We gave endless thanks to the Father of Heavenly Majesty. The light appeared in our days. We were thought worthy to see it. We joyfully bathed in the spring of purification, we climbed the mountain of victories as usual, we went up and we found the pillar of light in front of the cave. Again great fear came upon us. We knelt, stretched out our hands according to our old custom. We silently praised the wonderful vision. We saw that heaven had opened like a great gate. Men of glory carried the star of light in their hands. They came down and stood on the pillar of light. The entire mountain was filled with its light. No human can express this. Something like the hand of a small person came near us. It came from the pillar and the star, and the hand comforted us. We saw the star enter the cave of treasures of hidden mysteries, and the cave shone brightly. Wow, so the time had come, and here you'll see that you know, nowadays people tend to go, P I don't know if you what you make of this, PJ, that nowadays they'll sort of go, oh, Halley's Comet was around it, and then they'll come up with some time frame that's somewhat close to, you know, they say, Oh, maybe there was Halley's Comet at 5 AD, or I don't know what. And then they're imagining, oh, that was that was what it was. The Magi probably saw Halley's Comet or something, or like a comet. But or I've heard other people try to say it was an alignment of planets or something that they saw. But I think the problem with all those kind of things is modern people are easily impressed. They can kind of go outside and be see like a Hales comet or an alignment of planets, and modern people are like, whoa, probably something weird's going on. You know, what does this mean? They're very easily impressed, moderns, and kind of superstitious about things like that. But I think ancients were much more level-headed, and they would have been, they'd be like, Well, that's just a comet. That doesn't mean like some total cosmic mysteries happening. These things happen every 70 odd years, and that that's nothing. And an alignment of planets, we know what planets are, we know what an alignment of planets are. That in itself is not revealing the hidden mysteries of the father. They wouldn't have been so easily impressed by by you know strange lights in the sky as moderns get like get very superstitious about things like that. So the ancients in here, this confirms that because the star is something that is not at all like a natural phenomena. It obviously isn't an actual star that would be enormously huge, but it's something that's like a star is something that it seems to come out of heaven itself, doesn't it? And then in then then travels down. There's a pillar of light that also is present, and the pillar of light is brighter than the sun by far, and then there is also this thing that's a star that is carried by glory men. What do you make of all that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it is definitely worth thinking like how much did they know about astronomy in the ancient world? And so people often underestimate because they're like, oh, we can only get the lenses to see some of the stuff very recently. But what's quite remarkable is that in the in like ancient China they describe Jupiter's many moons, and but people are like, well, they can't do because like they the lenses to invent that, like even Galileo couldn't make these out properly. So like uh properly. So like it was since then, it's like only in the last 500 years or so we've been able to get anything like it, and then clear pictures to think, oh, these are definitely separate objects orbiting Jupiter. But in ancient China they're just like, yeah, yeah, they are, and actually, probably all cultures probably had this knowledge, because in all these cultures, Jupiter is the you know the king of the gods, and he's got all these attendants that come with him everywhere, and that seems to the reason they thought the planet Jupiter was him is because of all these moons. So that's the detail and precision. They really understand extraterrestrial bodies, they they understand this very well, and even indigenous Australians they they have carved into the rocks very ancient rocks, or very ancient carvings, the exact number of stars there are in Pleiades and things, and you can't make this out with like again, very in the last hundred years that was to us in like in Europe, they knew all this stuff, and how we don't know, but like they also know, so it's like their knowledge of what the actual bodies of the stars floating around are, they understand that very, very well. So when they seem to think of stars as not just this body, there's something else to stars, and really they're angels and things, that you know, that means something. This is true. This, you know, there is, and we get it all throughout the Bible, and that should be enough for us. But like, when we think like people just trusting that these planets and stars and so on are celestial persons, you know, in addition to this body, and somehow they can kind of be two things at once. Yeah, trusting that they got this incredible knowledge that we need all the this like gizmos and things for. They could just do it with apparently their bare eyes, as far as we can tell. Like, absolutely incredible when you think about it.
SPEAKER_00:It is like you they clearly possessed extremely vast and precise knowledge of astrological objects, what we would call the inhabitants of the second heaven, and they did that without the equipment that we have today, and so they had maybe they had means of observing the second heaven that are unknown to us. They had either greater technologies or greater or compl some completely different manner of seeing and knowing that is not that we that we because we are I always feel that we today are very low level compared to the ancients in the knowledge of the universe and the human body and so on. So they are not gonna be just uh impressed by normal astronomical phenomena, but what happens is there's this star that comes out of heaven, and in the Bible you will know that stars are angels, and this presumably is the explanation for this star that's carried down and is given this task, and they see this, and then they go, they go into the cave and and check it all out, but they're very afraid, but there's basically Jesus appears to them, Jesus appears to them, and that that pillar of light that was brighter than any sun and indescribably bright that they can't articulate. That is Jesus, basically, it is God the Son. And this is a bit that I find difficult in the revelations of the Magi, because it appears that he is present with them to talk to them, but he's also being born in the womb of Murray at the same time. And I'm I struggle with that, this idea. Like they let me just read what it says, and then then we'll try to process it a little bit. The light gathered itself together, it appeared to us in the physical form of a small, humble person. He said to us, Peace be with you, sons of my hidden mysteries. I will fulfill the Father's love even to the Death on a cross, I will come down for their salvation, I'll raise them up with me in love and constant peace if they believe in me. Take the treasure your fathers placed it in this cave. Go with joy and worship. I will be born like a human being. Worship me there. Even now as I speak with you, I am also there. My gospel has been announced by angels. I am both there and with my Father's majesty. I am everywhere. I'm a ray of light. My light has shone in this world from the majesty of my Father. He sent me to fulfil everything spoken about me. This was spoken in the whole world and in every land through unspeakable mysteries. I'm here to carry out the command of my glorious father preached about me through the prophets. Okay. So wow, Jesus is there and he's kind of gonna commission them to take the gifts and then go and worship him. But he's claiming, you know, the idea is he's both present with them and present in with Mary and present with the Father in the Majesty of Heaven. What'd you have you got any reaction to that, PD? Because that that is not at all the way we would think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that there are, to give an example in Ethiopia, there's two sets of liturgies they have for people on either side of this dispute of it exactly. Because it's a long-term do you want to explain the dispute, yeah. So in the yeah, in Ethiopia, there's one group of people called the Kebatoch. I'm probably mispronouncing it, but they have that view where it's like when Jesus humbles himself and he empties himself, he really does become just a human being like us in every way. Meaning he can't be omnipresent because that humans aren't. And so then he hasn't totally humbled himself, he's just attached to himself yet another thing, and that thing may be humble, but he's got this vast amount of glory everywhere. So they're like, that can't be true. But then you get other people, and they write these other, you know, stuff a bit like this, where they're like, Yeah, he's sort of everywhere, and he's sort of there in a different way, you know, or he's there in the flesh, sort of thing. So they're they're both in the Theopic Church, they both sort of side by side. I think other churches m often have a bit of a hard line, they're like, No, you've got to pick one side. Whereas I think in the modern Tao Haido stuff, they're happy to have both sides.
SPEAKER_00:They can cope with those who believe that Christ is omnipresent in in uh as the divine human, and then others who are like, nah, it can't be, he's like, that would be uh the a denial of his humanity or whatever. You get the same sort of thing in a in a different way in the argument between Lutherans and Calvinists, where is Christ present in the bread and the wine? And the Lutherans are like, Yeah, yeah, he's fully present as the divine human everywhere, therefore, specific specifically in the bread and the wine, and then the Calvinists tend to say, No, in as a divine human, he's present only at the right hand of the Father. They also, though, have a different thing, and they have it like Christ is present as a divine uh in in his divinity only in many other places, or or omnipresent in his divinity, but as a god man only present in one place. But let's not get too lost in the complexity, but it's like that kind of a debate even happens among Protestants as well.
SPEAKER_01:But the yeah, the And then in Catholicism, you've got like actual presence in the bread and wine, and then a sort of mediated presence is everywhere else, right? So then it's like that is so they have it that way.
SPEAKER_00:So if he's actually somewhere, he's got to be human and divine, but then he can have mediated things, and that might be more spiritual and more like you know, like but then it's like for Jesus to be actually somewhere, he has to be flesh and blood human being, yeah, and yeah, and I've noticed this debate about moods of omnipresence and presence comes up in orthodoxy in relation to the essence and energies of God and what it means to be omnipresent and then have a different sense present in specific locations. So, all I don't know whether the the the revelations of the Magi doesn't get into all the they're just like this is what he said to us that I am here and the and the the majesty of the father. I say yeah, I don't know quite how to digest all that, but that's what they testify to. Then let me speed on because there's a very strange thing, and this happens several times in the book, that they all have witnessed, they've all so they they basically take the treasure out of the cave, they go down the mountain full of praise and get ready to start their journey. But as they're walking down the mountain, they're discussing with each other what did they see when Jesus appeared to them in a vision, and it's actually it is a vision, maybe that's how to solve this. He's appearing to them in a vision, anyway. They they they say we let me read it, because what is they each see Jesus in a very different way, they don't all see the same thing, and this happens quite a bit in this book. That they when they encounter Christ, they each perceive him in different ways, they see different things. So let me read this. Each of us spoke about the revelations and visions he'd seen in the cave of treasures of hidden mysteries, but our visions were all different. The wonders we saw were of many forms. One of us said, I saw a light, there were many amazing images in it. Another said, I saw a baby with forms I cannot describe, another said, I saw a youth, and he had no form that exists in this world. Another said, I saw a human being who was humble, unappealing, and poor. Another said, I saw a cross, a person of light was hanging on it, he was taking away the sins of the world. Another said, I saw him go down to the underworld with power. All the dead rose and worshipped him. Another said, I saw him ascend in glory, he opened the graves and raised the dead. They were crying out and saying, Holy is our King, holy is his descent descent to us. Because of our sins, he humbled himself to save us. So what it that's an interesting thing, how they each perceive the vision differently, and each of them seemed to be seeing different aspects of Christ.
SPEAKER_01:And you get that whenever people see the throne room in heaven, they're seeing the same room, they're seeing an actual reality, they seem to attest that this is an actual place, and time, you know, you got actual time there, and people wait half an hour and all of this. They seem to attest this, but then they also see like I looked at Jesus one moment, he looked like a lamb, and the next moment he's like this, and that you know Oh, yeah, he's a lion, he's a lamb, he's a lion, he's a human, yeah. So it does like change a lot, like it does seem as if um and that idea that you've got uh more than just the three normal dimensions of space, uh, may be active, you know, i in heaven, so that things could be like uh you know, there are different angles to look at things beyond just spinning around in like height, width, and length. But you know, there's another tesser thing. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and also we even we sometimes will say when we're having our photo taken, we'll say, take me from this angle, because I look best from that angle, whereas from a different angle we feel we look different, and we might say, I look too stern, or I look ugly, or I look tired if from that side, whereas from that, and and it's that way in which it's as if maybe the full dimensions of us appear, but well, not us, don't let's forget about us, but Christ. Christ has so many different facets to him and heights and depths, you know, and only the father knows the son, and like nobody else, only the father can see the son in every dimension and aspect of him. Whereas for us, we'll see him, and then he'll present to us one of these infinite facets of himself, and we're like, Oh, he's like the one on the cross taking away the sins of the world, and then the other magi goes, No, I saw him as this poor, unassuming, humble human, and then someone else like, No, I saw him ascending in glory, but they're all just seeing this one Lord Jesus Christ who has all these infinite wonders about him, and we'll, of course, throughout all eternity, be always seeing more and grass glimpses and uh uh of these aspects of him. So I love that. Maybe we'll end with them doing their journey and then arriving at Jerusalem. Because other and then we'll do one more uh episode about the revelations of the Magi next week. So let me read from it. We prepared our camp, we gathered our supplies and the pure holy gifts, the gifts we took from the cave of treasures. The star, our guide, our good messenger, our perfect light, our leader, appeared to us again, and this star went ahead of us. It protected our whole group from all sides. It lit us up with its hidden light. We didn't need the light of the sun or the moon. Their light became dim in its presence. We walked in its light day and night. We were joyful and happy, we had no trouble or tiredness. It prepared a safe place for us to stop. We rested and rejoiced there. Even our supplies seemed plentiful and did not decrease. They actually increased each day when the star stopped over us with its light. It gave us rest from all fatigue, it felt like we weren't travelling at all. We walked across the rivers in front of us without fear. This was because of the light of our good guide. It went with us for our camp, and when we crossed into places with wild animals and dangerous snakes, we stepped on them. Our leader and guide appeared to each of us in all forms at every stop. He filled our hearts with great joy. All the journeys we made seemed short and fast to us. Our victorious sign and powerful light, which is beyond words, guided us with its strength. We arrived in the area of Jerusalem in the month of April. Well what that it does sound a little bit PJ like the book of Numbers, when Christ in uh with the sp it's the Spirit who's the pillar of cloud and fire, and the angel of the Lord in the pillar of cloud and fire. And remember, as they were travelling through the wilderness, they were guided with light, and the clothes didn't wear out, and food was prepared was given to them in the wilderness wanderings. It does sound a little bit like that, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01:And I think um even Matthew wants us to think about this in his slightly shorter account of the Magi, where if they're coming from the east and they reach Jerusalem, they do of course tr uh cross the Jordan and they're led by this life. Yes. That is, I think, you know, even within Matthew, even, you know, that is part of it that you've got a new exodus. The these Gentiles are going through an Exodus, because you get that promised in the Old Testament, like, you know, Egypt will get an Exodus and all this. All the nations need Exodus, you know, from sin and into the land Jesus has promised them. And the wise men actually get quite a close reproduction of the Exodus experience, but but also the new creation, you know, that idea where Jesus' light is so much brighter that you can't see the sun and moon, you know, you get that, you know, there's no need for the sun and moon anymore. Uh, but the I suppose with the difference being in that uh prophecy, the Lord makes the sun and moon seven times brighter so you can see them. Whereas if he did that yet, that would be an apocalypse. But so he hasn't done that yet. But otherwise, they get to experience a sort of new creation thing. Yeah, they do, don't they?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that it must have been this wonderful experience where there's no tiredness, there's no nothing gets worn out, there's just food, they don't have to sweat by their brow to get food, it's just provided for them instantly. It's light, yeah. This is how the creation's supposed to be. And even as they travel through the wilderness east of the Jordan, which is what they're doing, they they are having this Exodus coming to the one who is the light and the and the possibility of new creation and everything like that. Well, next time we'll find out briefly what happened at Jerusalem. We don't want to spend too much time on a loser like Herod, and that because we want to rush to what happens when they get to the baby Jesus.
