The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation

Episode 119e - Discipleship in the Dark: Truth, Bondage, and Perseverance

• Paul

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A lamp is not a sun—and yet in the dark, it’s tempting to believe the smaller light. We journey through The Silver Chair to face the ways enchantment works on the mind and how memory, obedience, and courage break its spell. With Eustace and Jill, we track Aslan’s four signs from an easy beginning to a decisive act, showing how spiritual growth moves from encouragement to direction, from perspective to bold obedience. Along the way we meet Puddleglum, whose brave, foot-scorching stomp and stubborn speech model how to live by the truer story when the false one feels closer.

We dig into the heart of captivity through Prince Rillian’s nightly bondage, exploring sin as deception and slavery rather than mere bad behaviour. When the cry comes “in Aslan’s name,” we see why delayed obedience keeps the chains tight—and why cutting the ropes is both terrifying and freeing. We link this to Ephesians 4’s call to put off the old self and be renewed in the mind, grounding Narnian drama in the lived practice of Christian discipleship. From the ruins in the north to the underworld’s suffocating room, we unpack how environments can make truth feel implausible and how rehearsing the word restores sight.

We also sit with Aslan’s fierce mercy at the stream—“There is no other stream”—and with Peter’s response to Jesus’ hard sayings: where else could we go? The thread tying it all together is perseverance: walking by faith when sight is thin, keeping to the last clear instruction, and surrounding ourselves with people who will stamp out our soothing lies when we cannot. If you’re navigating doubt, craving freedom, or trying to remember what’s real, this conversation offers practical handles and deep comfort. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves Narnia or needs courage today, and leave a review to help others find the show. Where do you most feel the underworld tug—and which sign will you rehearse tonight?

The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore

SPEAKER_00:

Well, welcome to the next episode of the Christ Center Cosmic Civilization, and we're still in the magical land of Narnia. We're through the wardrobe, we're exploring the whole land and the series of novels. And we're kind of still in the Caspian sequence. There's there's Prince Caspian, there's the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and now it's the Silver Chair. And that's all the way still through, in a way, the life of um King Caspian, but now he's an old man and uh this is his final appearance in that sense. Um now the Silver Chair, what is this about? It's it's about being like so often we've seen that what is going on is the contrast between what we know to be true uh because we see things from in a way the perspective of Aslan. We know that it's the magical land of Al Narnia, we know Aslan's real, and you you've gotta believe him, you've gotta hold true, and it's all clear to us because we are kind of viewing it all um in the clear light of day. But for the characters, they get caught up in situations where things are not clear, and the social environment they're in uh or or the physical circumstances they're in mean that they lose sight of the reality of Aslan. And uh like we saw in um in Prince Caspian's story, they arrive the children come to Anarnia where it's all completely forgotten, and completely gone and forgotten. So here in the Silver Church, um the it's different children now. Um well, Eustace is back, he was on the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and he's now you know he becomes a redeemed person, newborn, and uh he's got his school friend, Jill Pole. And uh the they are brought to Narnia and given a quest from Aslan, uh, but this quest is going to challenge them on holding to the instructions that Aslan gives them when the things around them don't uh confuse them and disorientate them, and they don't recognize the things that he's told them to see, and then it really reaches an extremity: this clash between what is true versus what seems to be the case where later as the novel progresses and as they go underground. So uh it's some people there's a quotation I have that says that the key to the silver chair is it's about going on a quest with only a small amount of knowledge, and you have to remember what you've been told and cling to it, even when everything around you seems to contradict it, and that's the depth of this. So the I always have three kind of themes that I try to explore in these Narnian episodes, and my three, if we get through them, is this at this point about holding holding firmly to the truth in a world of deception, and then the second truth, and this is this wonderful deliverance from bondage, where and and we're gonna look at Prince Rillian and uh his both captivity and his his uh escape, his redemption. And then this wider theme, if we get round to it, perseverance in doubt and darkness. So it's uh discipleship, yes, but it's discipleship in the shadows, trusting the lion's word when the world whispers lies. So in the let's set the stage. Eustace Scrub returns to Narnia with Jill, and this time with Jill Pole. It's her first visit. They're given this mission by Aslan, which is to find Prince Rillian. Now he's the lost son of King Caspian, and to guide Jill Pole on her quest to save Prince Rillian, Aslan reveals to her four essential instructions, or well, they're called signs. He gives her four signs, and these are physical things she will encounter that will guide her and uh show her reality, and these must be remembered and followed precisely. And um here's a quotation from the book when she's got the signs, she's told, first remember, remember, remember the signs. Say them to yourself when you wake in the morning and when you lie down at night, and when you wake in the middle of the night, and whatever strange thing, strange things may happen to you, let nothing turn your mind from following the signs. Those that's that's from the book. Now we can recognize that as very like the language of Deuteronomy about the law and in the Psalms and Psalm 1, Psalm 119. That's how we are to be with God's word to us, to meditate on it in the morning, in the night, in the middle of the night, to constantly keep it before us, and to not be led astray or distracted by the world, the flesh and the devil, and the lies that are whispered to us, or the alternative views and everything. And so, this idea that we must remember and commit it to heart and can't continue like that. But because these signs, then, the these these are how to interpret the world, and how this has to be constantly refreshed, the idea is, because otherwise they won't be able to find their way. So um the first sign foretells that she will encounter Eustace Scrub, her friend from school, upon entering Narnia, and uh that's an easy win. Uh so it that she is giving the encouragement is ah look, see, that sign was easily fulfilled, trust the rest. The second sign directs her and Eustace to journey northward till they reach the ancient um desolate ruins inhabited by giants, and this is a dangerous place, uh, mysterious, confusing thing, and um and then the third sign involves that instructs Jill to um pay attention to any writing she discovers in these northern ruins, and here it's the importance of observation and obedience because the to see this writing that she needs to see is not easy. She needs a high a high perspective to witness this writing, it's not it's not on the gr it's not easily seen from ground level, it can only be observed from above. And then finally, the fourth sign states that when a person in grave need begs for help in Aslan's name, Jill must recognise this individual as Prince Rillian himself, and then she must act without hesitation. So each sign kind of builds upon the last, does it? You can see she needs to meet Eustace, then they need to travel north, then to get to the city, the ruined city in the ruined city must see this writing that is not easy to see, and then if they've done all that, they should find uh Rillian, but he won't be easily recognized. But once he if this person asks in the name of Aslan, they'll know it's him. So it get it's like that, and the test then is Jill's will Jill remember? Will she have the courage to hold to what she remembers? Will she trust Aslan's guidance throughout this journey, through the challenges, particularly when it's dangerous and confusing? Well, eventually they do, uh, once they followed the first three signs, and that's that provides all kinds of challenges, uh, eventually they descend underground into the realm of the Lady of the Green Kirtle, and she's a witch who has enchanted Prince Rillian and bound him to a silver chair, but this isn't obvious to begin with. He it because there is this knight, this silent knight guy, um, and he he he is the well it all becomes clear. It's not at all obvious that that is Prince Rillian. Uh and the because Prince Rillian only um becomes himself a brief time each day when he's in the silver chair. And so this story is kind of darker really than the um earlier Narnia uh stories because there's so much deception and doubt and danger and the the perseverance in the shadows, and it again what's powerful about it, and this was again one of the stories that spoke very powerfully to me um as a teenager reading them was the way in which the uh it's so easy to be bewitched and deceived as to our true identity and our kind of tr the true nature. There's something of this uh an old humanity and a new humanity, and to live in a world of the old humanity, and it all seems confusing, and then there's this other reality that is hard to keep hold of and hard to see, and hard to know it's real, even. So, this let's move on to this other theme: holding fast to the truth in a world of deception. This is our first theme. Um, so this lesson, and we've been already exploring it about the silver chair of remembering Aslan's signs, you know, and Jill has to keep repeating them and fix them, and the the journey gets harder, and so the challenges are to forget. And um the climax of this story really is when the witch tries to enchant the children and puddleglum, puddleglum is is often people's favourite character in this uh story, he's an unusual kind of marsh creature. I think he's called a marsh or wiggle, and um this uh difficulty of holding on to what they have been told to remember and what is true, what is real, and once they go into this underground realm uh of the uh uh witch, it's very, very difficult to keep a grip about what is real and what is true, and then she uses her magic to make them doubt the very existence of the sun, the S U N, the Sun, even of Narnia, of Aslan. And they've only been up, they've been in the upper world, the overland, uh not that long ago, but but the but this deceptive power of this underworld, this kingdom that is cut off from the light of the sun, and and and isn't in in and Narnia can almost feel as if it was just a dream and it wasn't even real, and Aslan isn't real, and none of these things seem real anymore. And this is the power of her magic, her enchantment, her deception. And we can kind of relate to that. This is why this is such a powerful the two things is her deception power and then this silver chair thing. Uh, we'll come to that shortly. But first, this deception power because it so speaks to us if we are really Christian people and we are born again and have known the presence of Jesus like like they have known and seen and experienced Aslan. But then when and so when when they're in his presence, everything is clear and and in and reality and it's wonderful. But when he's not with them, then these other powers and voices and ideas come and they and and and can be so powerful that they can doubt the reality even of Aslan, and certainly of Narnia or the sun. And so she, this witch, whispers, there is no world, but this one, the underworld. There is no sun, only a lamp. A lamp that's up high, and you've imagined that there's something called the sun, but all you've seen all there really is, is there's just a lamp, because there's only this underground world hidden in darkness, and maybe you've seen a lamp high up, and you think maybe that that maybe you confuse that and imagined that there was a a sun in the sky? What is that? So she says, No, there's no world, but this one, there is no sun, there is only a lamp, there's no Aslan, only a dream, and that that power of that we can all relate to that if we really are uh people who've experienced the reality of the Lord Jesus by the power of the Spirit sent from the Father, and when we are like we know that there's this real world, the cosmic civilization of Christ, and all of that. But when we are lost, when we have wandered, when we have not remembered, when we have forgotten, and we have a lot, we have not constantly stayed in his word and calling out to him and meeting with his people, and when we're together as his people, we can refresh these words of his and they come alive in a in a new and powerful way when we read them together and hear them together and talk about them together and preach them together, then these words that he has given us have a new power, a refreshing power upon us, and they the the the enchantment is broken and we see clearly and we can hear clearly and our minds are opened and all of that. But yeah, the power of it is is that as we in this present darkness, this passing age, this mortal life, we can end up wal falling out of step with the spirit and falling in step with the flesh, the world, the flesh, and the devil. And the more that we do that, the less real, the less real Jesus seems to us. And we can even end up thinking, maybe it not, maybe it isn't real, maybe there is no third heaven, maybe none of it's real. That can happen to us, and the enchantment must be broken. So that voice of unbelief and of um doubt and fear and that small-minded thing we we only look at this immediate darkness around us, there's no truth, there's no there's no there's no greater reality, there's just this. The only meaning is what we invent for ourselves, there's and you know nothing there is no light that shines, there's just a lamp. But there's this wonderful thing, because she ha is is she has this fire that that has she puts a kind of bewitching drug into the fire, and as it's burning, it it bewitches them. But Puddle Glam stamps upon it to stamp it out and burns himself in the process. It's a wonderful moment, and then he uh has this what absolutely fabulous speech, and nearly everybody, this is their favourite bit in in the novel, and I'll read what he says, not the whole of it, because it's quite long, but quite a bit of it, because after she's finished spe she's been speaking, and then he stamps on this fire to get rid of her bewitching um smoke, and then he can he says, I won't deny any of what you've said, but there's one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed or made up all those things trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have then all I can say is that in that case, the made up things seem a good deal more important than these real ones. Suppose this dark pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that's a funny thing when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a play world which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play world. I'm on Aslan's side, even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can, even if there isn't any Narnia. Wonderful speech. Um it's this faith in Aslan, he clinging on to that even in the darkness, even when he's not even sure if it's true anymore, kind of. But he's like, even the thought of it is better than this hollow deception. Uh, and it's a wonderful way of resisting um the lies and just the recognition that to f like he we would we might say I'm gonna follow Jesus even if he didn't exist. He's to follow he's the he's better. He's better than anybody and anything else. And uh I'd rather follow an imaginary Jesus than a real any uh any a real God who isn't Jesus kind of it's that wonderful thought and that I remember years ago before um I remember someone who follows a different religion had said that to me. What if what if on this day of judgment you discover that my God is real and Jesus never was Never was And it was you were wrong all along, what then? And I said, and I mean and I still say it and I mean it from my heart, I said, I would not bow to your God. I prefer to burn in hell forever and imagine the memory of Jesus. That is better to to remember them a memory of Jesus than than settle for some poor rubbish god who isn't worth bothering with compared to even an imaginary Jesus. And that comes out, this idea that better better to be on Aslan's side, even if there isn't an Aslan. Now, of course, there is an Aslan. There is an Aslan, there is a Narnia, and then for us too, the Lord Jesus is real, and we know that to be true, but uh it's as if C.S. Lewis pushes into what if your doubts overwhelm you so much that you just don't know it anymore? And he's like, still hold on to Jesus, still hold on, even if you're surrounded, the world, the flesh, and the devil have bewitched you so completely that you can't even know if it's true anymore. It doesn't even then, who cares? Even if still hold on to Jesus and his cosmic civilization, because it's still better, it's still better. Even and that's really like Jesus would say himself in his teaching. Even if your faith is so tiny, it's the smallest thing in all the world, that tiniest, tiniest bit of faith, even if some people would say, Well, that isn't even faith. That's that's so much doubt. There isn't any faith left, and you say, No, there's the even the tiniest, tiniest bit of faith left is enough to move a mountain, a huge mountain, to do anything. Any trust in Jesus, even if it's as at the got to that level, is better than than just embracing the bewitchment and darkness and grossness of a world where he is not at all. Well, it's a powerful thing, and C.S. Lewis is teaching us this discipleship. It's not that we've got all the answers and we have this kind of crazy certainty or anything like that. Um, or it's it's not that, it's holding fast to the truth that we've been given, even when the world, the flesh, and the devil whispers or shouts. Otherwise, and even if we can't hardly see any see any light anymore, we still hold on to him, and he will never leave us or forsake us. It's remembering the signs, even when the world tries to make us forget. And then this second theme is the deliverance from bondage, and this is absolutely wonderful as well. The heart of the story, Prince Rillian bound to the silver chair. Every night he's tied to the chair, and he raves and he pleads for release. Because when he's in this chair, he is then himself, he's free from the enchantment, and so he raves. He's like, Let me out, because now I see clearly. But the witch has told the children, Oh, he's dangerous then, you mustn't untie him. Don't listen to a word he says at that time, then he's out of his mind. Uh, and it's this wonderful way in which a Christian can be like that, and we can be bewitched. It's in Ephesians where Paul is saying to the to them, to the Ephesians, that they have forgotten and are thinking like non-Christians. And when they think like non-Christians, they behave like non-Christians and they become dead and darkened, and that even God doesn't seem real to them anymore. It's there, Ephesians 4, 17 to 25, and this way that our if when we are thinking like pagans, our we become darkened in understanding, separated from the life of God, and then we can fall into all this kind of sensual, sinful behavior, and we are out of our minds, bewitched. But then from verse 20 in Ephesians 4, Paul says, Ah, but that is not the way of life you learned when you heard Christ. It's not heard about Christ, it's actually you heard Christ and you heard him, met him, then when you met him and heard him, then you knew what was real, and you could put then you put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires, and made new in the attitude of your minds. Put on the new self, created to be like God. And verse 25, each of you put off falsehood. I love all that, and then so Prince Rillian is there, and it's as if he's only in his right mind in this time, and then he wants nothing to do with the deception, he wants to be free of it, he hates it. And Christians, you may know what that's like. I we know that sometimes when we have allowed ourselves to be bewitched and to betray what we know to be true, and it and and then and then when we come to our senses and see clearly, we hate that, and we want to be free of it, we want to be free of sin forever, and we rage against it, and there's something of all that about that silver chair moment, but uh they know it's him because in his raging he invokes the name of Aslan. He says, In the name of Aslan, you've gotta set me free, and then they remember that fourth sign and they cut the ropes, they free Rillian, the enchantment is broken, it's deliverance, it's salvation, it's this like breaking free of the old humanity and the old life and being free to free from all of that. Er, yeah, wow, because he's bound, he's deceived, he's enslaved, and only following Aslan's word can bring freedom. The silver chair, this powerful image of bondage. Uh and and that's important because sin is not just bad behaviour, it's far more than that, isn't it? And this is again what C.S. Lewis is showing us. It it is a captivity, a bondage, a deception, and only Christ can set us free from that. Um the final theme is this perseverance in doubt and darkness, and we've kind of looked at that. Um that the journey through the underworld and all that time in the underworld is long and weary, they're tired, they doubt, they quarrel, they can't see. It's discipleship in the dark, and this point that C.S. Lewis makes, and he makes it in many of his books in different ways, and he has this brutal honesty, a grief observed, and so on, that we can't see with clarity the answers, and our feelings and questions and thinking can overwhelm us, and we can't, and and it's it's weary, it can be feeling confused, it feels like we're stumbling in the dark, but perseverance matters. Press on the children, they press on. Puddle gum keeps them grounded, and in the end, their perseverance leads to deliverance, and this is the Christian life. We're called to walk by faith, not by sight. And that doesn't mean not knowing. We do know the truth, but we lose our grip upon it, and and and we get confused and we cut and and we hear arguments and have experiences that make us go, oh, I don't, I just can't see it. I can't feel it the same, I haven't got the same conviction, and yet somehow we say, no, but I I faith is no we kind of know what's true, though we can't see it. That's exactly how Hebrews 11 this defines faith is the s is the solidity the the the substance of what we can't see. So faith is about that we can't see it clearly. We can't there are times where we can't see it at all. But yet we say, look, I know this to be true. I know it. And even if I can't feel it or see it or see it clearly or anything, I persevere and keep going because I trust. I trust the Lord Jesus even when I can't see Him and when I can't experience it. And I'm overwhelmed by deception. And uh I still hold on and persevere. That's so important. Walking by faith, not by sight. Persevere even when the way is hard. The Lion is guiding us even when we cannot see him. So faith, yeah, a quotation here that I found. Faith is not the absence of doubt, it's perseverance in the midst of it. So and it's also that Christ, we might have ideas about him, and we might think, Oh, I'm not sure I can handle him. He's not safe or he's not civilized. We might we lose sight of him, and he may not seem safe or civilized. Because when we listen to the world, the flesh, and the devil, our values and assumptions change. And think we become we become very sensitive about some subjects and hard-hearted on other ones, and we become, as that Ephesians 4, 17 to 25 shows us, our thinking gets twisted, our feelings get all messed up too, and we become upset about things we shouldn't be upset about, and uh we're not upset about things we should be, and all of this can happen so that then we we read the Bible, we read about Christ, and we and we hear his words and ways, and we can be like, ah, he doesn't seem right. I disagree with that, that's not the way I think we should be, and we kind of he doesn't seem civilized, or even we might say he doesn't even seem moral, according to the silly and pompous codes of right and wrong that we've invented. And so what sometimes we say, I want I need Jesus to conform to my worldly ways of thinking, and then I might believe in him. I I'll only trust him if he will conform himself to this underground world of confusion and darkness, and if he will come and be part of this and conform himself to these values, then I'll say, Oh, yeah, you make sense now in this underworld, but he doesn't do that, he won't conform himself to our made-up worlds and foolish rules, and so we might that's the importance of trusting him, even if what he seems to be alien and even wrong. He might, like the Pharisees said to Jesus in the Gospels, you're wrong, you're breaking the law, you're breaking the Sabbath, you're you're not a right, you're not right. And they say, You must conform to what we think, and he won't do it, Jesus won't do it. In fact, there are times where he confronts them and uh make in and kind of makes it even harder for them to deal with him. And so there's a scene that's kind of like that, um, where there's Jill and Aslan, and she's scared of Aslan, and she says, Will you promise not to do anything to me if I come and get a drink of water? Because there's a stream of water near to Aslan. And then he he says that I make no promise, said the lion. Jill was so thirsty now that without noticing she'd come a step nearer. Do you eat girls? she said. I have swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms, said the lion. It didn't say this as if it were boasting, nor as if it were sorry, nor as if it were angry. It just said it. I daren't come and drink, said Jill. Then you will die of thirst, said the lion. Oh dear, said Jill, coming another step nearer. I suppose I must go and look for another stream then. There is no other stream, said the lion. See that again is this point that he won't domesticate himself to Jill's sentimentalities and perceptions. She has to accept him in all his fearful, wondrous majesty and trust him. Trust him. And I love that it reminds me of the scene in John 6. Jesus um demanded that people he asserts in very strong terms, they can only get life by eating his flesh and drinking his blood. And people were upset, they were upset about that because um to do that, to eat human flesh or to drink blood, to drink blood from any animal is expressly forbidden in the law, the ancient law of Moses, and would make them would make them not clean but unclean. And he and when the he he reasserts it because even when they're upset, he's like, Yes, my flesh is real food, my blood is real drink. So he doubles down on it to offend them even more. And so many took offence at him and left him. So it's there in John 6, from verse 56, Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. The one who feeds on me will live because of me. And then it goes on on hearing this. Many of his disciples said, This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? From this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed Jesus. You don't want to leave too, do you? Jesus asked the twelve. Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. And that scene with Jill and Aslan reminds me of that, and this way in which we can't we may we maybe can't understand what Jesus is saying and doing, and it might frighten us, disturb us, and it may offend us because he doesn't play by our rules, particularly when when our hearts and minds are caught up in the darkness. But do we trust him anyway? And I love the fact Peter's like, I don't know, I'm finding it hard to understand what you're saying, Jesus. But what I do know is there is no other water to go and drink from. There is no other eternal life. Only you have it. I'm sticking with you regardless. So that's why this story matters. Let's pull it together. It matters because it speaks the Silver Church story speaks to those seasons of doubt, deception, and darkness. This story reminds us to cling to God's word, to remember the signs, to resist the lies. It shows us that deliverance is possible, bondage can be broken. Jesus, Aslan, can break the our whatever bondage we're in, and however hopeless our situation, even if we're in we think, well, I'm telling my own in a dark underworld under a bewitchment of a powerful witch. There is no way I could ever be set free. And we may have our own equivalents of that, but it's not true. Jesus can reach us. He can reach you if you're listening now. Call out to him. Freedom is real, it's possible. There is another world, there's another king called Jesus, and all the lies cannot uh take that away. Perseverance matters for some of us. That theme is important. Keep going, don't give in. Even when we can't see, even when we can't see and we're confused, and even we're we're offended by Jesus and his ways. We say, no, I'm I'm still sticking with, I'm still keeping going, even in the dark. He is with us, even if we don't know that. So uh read the silver chair if you've not read it, uh and where are you in it? Um do you are you in it? Does it is it the bit about the holding on to the signs? Remember, meditate morning, night, middle of the night, return to this word from Christ. Hold firmly and uh don't don't all don't allow though that that to be driven out of you. Don't forget his words, or we bound like Rillian in the chair. Is it that we feel in c under bewitchment and captivity and enslavement and we want to be free? Or is it this persevering in the dark um deep things? Uh in the next episode, we're gonna look at the horse and his boy, and it's about the providence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the lives of those who don't necessarily know him or see him yet. So until then, may you remember the signs, resist the lies, and trust Aslan, even in the dark.