The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Rod Dreher wrote “to order the world rightly as Christians requires regarding all things as pointing to Christ”
Christ is the One in Whom in all things consist and humanity is not the measure of all things. If a defining characteristic of the modern world is disorder then the most fundamental act of resistance is to discover and life according to the deep, divine order of the heavens and the earth.
In this series we want to look at the big model of the universe that the Bible and Christian history provides.
It is a mind and heart expanding vision of reality.
It is not confined to the limits of our bodily senses - but tries to embrace levels fo reality that are not normally accessible or tangible to our exiled life on earth.
We live on this side of the cosmic curtain - and therefore the highest and greatest dimensions of reality are hidden to us… yet these dimensions exist and are the most fundamental framework for the whole of the heavens and the earth.
Throughout this series we want to pick away at all the threads of reality to see how they all join together - how they all find common meaning and reason in the great divine logic - the One who is the Logos, the LORD Jesus Christ - the greatest that both heaven and earth has to offer.
Colossians 1:15-23
The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Episode 81 - Candlemas, Groundhog Day, and the Journey of the Holy Family
Candlemas serves as a pivotal point in the church calendar, bridging the festive atmosphere of Christmas with the solemnity of Lent, and focuses on the presentation of Jesus at the Temple. This episode explores the deep historical and theological significance surrounding Candlemas, the connection to Groundhog Day, the sorrow of Mary, and the rich traditions that fill this meaningful period.
• Examination of the historical context of Candlemas
• Connection of Candlemas to Groundhog Day
• Overview of the Church calendar's significance
• Insight into the flight to Egypt and Jesus’ early life
• Reflections on Mary’s sorrows and Jesus' early teachings
• Discussion on the cultural variations of Candlemas practices
• Realization of the deeper implications of the Holy Family's journey
Candlemas Book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Candlemas-Through-Church-History-Project/dp/B0DQDPX2T9/
The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore
Well, welcome to the next episode of the Christ-Centered Cosmic Civilization. And we're right in the heart of a meditation time about the church year and Epiphany Tide we've been thinking about and now we need to. The goal is to really get deep into Candlemas and Candlemas Tide. We're celebrating this book that PJ's written on Candlemas down through church history. It's a fabulous book. I've been reading it and rereading it over the Christmas period and it's good because half of the book is all the theology and history and bible studies and I've learned so much. And then the other half of the book is kind of. He gets into all kinds of hymns and practices and even I think even even like things like rest. Is there a recipe in this one?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, several, several recipes and then little phrases, because obviously one. A lot of people may already know about Candlemas under its American name of Groundhog Day.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Groundhog Day is Candlemas. Yeah, yeah, zany. So there's a lot. I've gathered together hundreds, I think.
Speaker 1:So Candlemas is Groundhog Day. Yeah, zany.
Speaker 2:That's a film to watch. You can watch on Candlemas Day.
Speaker 1:Is Candlemas groundhog day. I feel like I'm repeating myself nice.
Speaker 2:So I've included all these phrases that you get around the world, slovak phrases and various small little countries around the world that you know they still have, like Tuscan and all of this sort of stuff in Italy and what they say. It's all quite different. They've got like interesting perspectives and what's meant to happen. Uh, one of my favorite phrases is a german one lechmus and klee, austin and schnee, which means if it's a sunny cannabis, you'll have um a snowy easter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's yeah, a lot of stuff about what to look out for on cannabis so that's a.
Speaker 2:I did notice that that you'll have a snowy Easter, ah, okay, yeah, a lot of stuff about what to look out for on.
Speaker 1:Candlemas. I did notice that that in this book you have, like in the second half of the book, loads of stuff to do with the traditions, recipes, songs, regional variations, like unbelievable amount of that sort of thing. So I've really enjoyed the book. Now Candlemasmas. So first of all, just tell us define this period of the church year, candlemas. Well, in a minute we'll think about the candle element of it. But first of all just tell us it runs epiphany tide goes up to what part point? Then you have this thing candlemas and candlemas tide. But you, you indicate that it's a variable length. So tell us about, like tell us first of all the you know to do with the. What is it that is celebrated in candlemas tide and why is it a variable length?
Speaker 2:yeah, so a key feature of the um church calendar is that it's a biography of Jesus, basically, and that you've got you know. So we thought it starts with Advent and Christmas, thinking about his first and second comings. And so then we have his childhood, as we thought in the last episode, where in Epiphany Tide you're thinking about this time the Bible describes when he's there with Mary for a bit and then you get Lent. Well, so then then it goes up to Candlemas. So that's this point where Luke describes after 40 days he goes into the temple for this event, and then after that some variable length we get lent, and so that moves.
Speaker 2:We're told by saint eusebius and other great church historians that the apostles peter and paul decided that when we celebrate easter we should keep it at a lunar date so that it's always on the same day in the week, because that was basically what was done in the old temple. And then Jews later moved to a more solar calendar so that Easter or Passover could happen at any day in the year. And then John, the apostle John, was happy to. He said I'll just go along with the changes the Jews are doing. Peter and Paul were like no, we've got to stick to what the old temple was doing. And that caused a massive rift in the first and second centuries about exactly when we should do easter. And those arguments kept going for ages. But anyway the peter and paul decided no, you've got to do it like moses set out. So it's got to be a lunar based thing. So that means it doesn't totally fit up with what would otherwise be a solar thing. But we get what that with the apostle paul. He's always like if you're going to do the law of moses, you've got to do absolutely properly, or don't bother at all. And so you get with timothy and he's like oh, I'm kind of like half jew, half greek, and he's like you got to pick one either you're not coming into synagogues with me, or anything, or you're totally jewish and you've got to be circumcised, everything. Uh, so paul was a bit like that. So he's like if we're gonna start, if we're gonna keep doing easter, we've got to do it properly. And so the church, especially in the west, kind of was like all right, that's what we're doing. So it moves around in the year because it doesn't quite, um, tee up properly with the solar calendar. So easter moves around and then.
Speaker 2:So obviously in j' life story we've got this thing where he's got like 40 days of just being there with his mum and then he has later when he grows up, he has 40 days in the wilderness when he's fasting, and so we participate in that like we thought before, how like, if you're being churched, you participate in a bit of what Jesus did. Church, you participate in a bit of what Jesus did. Then there's also this idea we'll all participate in this fasting 40 days, just like Jesus does, as that begins his ministry. And then we think about his ministry. Then we think about him going up to heaven and then, as Luke describes, the next bit of history. It's also part of Jesus' life because he says his gospel was about everything Jesus began to do, and then Jesus keeps doing things through the apostles and then through us. So all of that time from the ascension to a second coming is also part of Jesus' biography. But then we think about that.
Speaker 2:It's often called ordinary times. That's like it's all structured so you start to think like this is the fifth sunday after easter and that. So you count it in an order. So it's often called ordinary time, which doesn't mean it's without celebrations or without special meaning or anything, just means you start counting and because we're like that, we're like this is the 2024th year after j was incarnated, that's how we.
Speaker 2:So time at the moment is ordinary, that we're thinking this is this much time after Jesus did something, and so the year is a bit like that, where it's like and so special things still happen. It's ordinary doesn't mean, you know, there's nothing going on, it just means we're now just think we're counting down, we're counting up the time that's passed and we're thinking there's a point coming where that's Advent, that's him coming again. So the whole year set up like that. So it's all a big biography of Jesus. So, given that this point where Jesus is, you know, with Mary for 40 days and then goes into the temple, is so important in Jesus' biography, as given by Luke, that's got to be important to us and so that's got to be in our church year, which is a biography of Jesus. We've got to mark that occasion his entry into the temple.
Speaker 1:So we've basically got two 40-day slabs of bread, one 40-day slab of bread that runs from Christmas Day and that's a 40-day thing. Then we've got this other big chunk that runs back from Easter, back 40 days, and then the filling of this big sandwich that's going to run from the birth of Jesus to his resurrection. We've got a space for a filling between these two big pieces of 40 day bread and the sandwich filling. Then is candlemas and it varies how much you're going to get in the sandwich, in the filling, because of the flexibility of Easter and that can move around quite a bit because of, as you said, the lunar calendar issues and so on. So it isn't a fixed point to Easter, certainly for the Western calendar and everything. So you don't know how much candlemas you're going to get. You can have as little as just a couple of days, is that right? Yeah, yeah, you can have as little as just a couple of days, is that?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or you can have as long as I think, a month or something To a month. So candlemas is something which. That's the flexibility. You might get a sandwich with a massive filling of candlemas or you might get just like a single small sheaf of ham for two days of candlemas. So you don't know how, you don't know quite what sort of sandwich you're going to get with the candlemas filling. But there's the candlemas bit and that's the flexibly sized bit that will come between the 40 days of Epiphany Tide, christmas, right the way to there, and then the 40 days of Lent and we've got this period in the middle and Candlemas Tide.
Speaker 1:Then, if you think about it, so there's that initial 40 days from the birth of Jesus that's really focused on Jesus as a little baby and that kind of him being nestled with his mum and dad and the kind of in that protected space. It's really a meditation on Jesus as a baby really. And then when we hit to Lent, it's from the beginning of his adult ministry right through to his death and resurrection. So this candle must tide the. The filling of the sandwich is his childhood and growing up period. It's like what happened to him, like after you've had the birth and the presentation at the temple. What's the next so? The presentation of the temple. What's the next so? The presentation of the temple? And it's really him as a baby and a child, and his childhood and his growing up. That's this candlemas. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why in the Western calendar the flight to Egypt is celebrated on the 4th of February, so that if candlemas tide is only two days long, you'll be able to celebrate the flight to Egypt as a part of it. So that can always be it.
Speaker 1:And that flight to Egypt is fascinating because, for those of us who are not egyptian or not, part of that, that part of the world, if you're, if you're um, copped or tauhido or you know and you're part of you're from that you know there's so many millions and millions of christians. This is all part of the geography. The flight to egypt and jesus going down and spending time in africa and going around the Nile and all this kind of stuff that's immensely important to these huge numbers of Christians who have lived in that area. And there's loads in the Bible about prophecies about Egypt being blessed by the Lord coming and then being delivered from paganism and things like that. And all those prophecies come into play for the flight to Egypt.
Speaker 1:And what I found fascinating is how, like I just read it and go, oh, they went to Egypt, then they come back, and then I don't think about it beyond that. But if you lived in Egypt, it's like, oh, they went to Egypt, then they come back, and then I don't think about it beyond that. But if you lived in Egypt, it's like, well, where did he exactly go? In Egypt, like what did you mean? Like Egypt, so the Bible just leaves it as well. That's where he went. He just went to Egypt and came back, but of course, if you'd lived there in the first century, there were all sorts of stories that people remembered the Holy Family coming and all sorts of adventures that they had and all the different locations they went, and that there are still churches and points of all the different places that the Holy Family. I tell you what? Let's not touch that, because we will come back to the flight to Egypt and look at that in a bit more detail. Or do you want to say anything about it quickly?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is just something where the Old Testament prophecies do mention, you know, the Lord has come to this place in Egypt, to on to, you know, aswan and things. And so the ancient African believers, like St Philo, were looking forward to this happening and they think, oh, the Lord's actually going to visit this place. And so obviously, looking back, christians are often like, even when they didn't have total details and things, they might think, well, it was prophesied the Lord would come to this place, so we definitely believe it, even though they do usually preserve a lot of stories. So in this one example, often, like Egyptians are like this is as far South as he ever got. But then ancient Nubian Christians were often like, no, he's got to go a bit further South because there's this prophecy that he's going to get to.
Speaker 2:Aswan, which is often a part of Nubia, had a big Nubian population and there was, throughout the medieval period, this church the Nubians had dedicated to the holy family in that city. So they were like, nah, he definitely reached us as well. Because you could think, if you're like you said, like if you live in this area, if this is what you're thinking when you read that prophecy, you're like what Jesus actually went to Nubia. So the Nubians are like that's definitely it. And even then the Copts will be like no, it didn't reach Nubia, it was just Egypt. But then it was like no, that prophecy, because they think about it loads. And it's interesting how there's so much in the Bible which, if you've got a reason to think about it, you do notice it.
Speaker 1:I have noticed that One of the big impacts on me on studying church history and listening to the churches that are from like what we would say the Middle East or Egypt and Ethiopia and Arabia and Levantine and all of that Levantine and all of that, and in Turkey too, is they live in the places mentioned in the Bible and there were churches present in those places from the first century and that they had living memory of the events that are described in the Bible happening and that they wrote those down and built churches on the locations of the things that happened. So the Bible might just like say he went to Egypt and then he came back, but there were Christians very quickly, so there were already like all the Jewish believers in Egypt who like knew that they're waiting for the Lord, philo, people like that, and they were the then the Ethiopic, you know, believers and everything. All that's happening and so I found interesting is, like you're saying, when I read Old Testament passages and it's talking about like the Lord's going to come and deliver people in Egypt and then it lists place names, like really specific place names. That shocks me because when I have to be honest, when I was reading that previously. I just skate over it and I'm like, well, I don't care, like there's just a list of names of places but they don't mean anything. Then I literally almost thought of them as not real places or as if it doesn't. It's just not, it's just prophets, like rabbiting on about places, and of course, that doesn't ever land on the ground in physical, real, physical, historical, concrete reality.
Speaker 1:But if you live in egypt, if you're a christian, each of those places mentioned by isaiah or something, you're like I know that place or my uncle lives there, or something, and then you actually go well, did he did the? Isaiah said this was going to happen in this place and this place and this place and this place. And then you know, well, yeah, actually there were people there in the first century who remembered jesus coming and they they built a church or there was a spring of water came up at that point and it's still flowing and all this kind of thing. So it's like the Bible says they went to Egypt, but in church history they remembered him coming and they recorded it and related it to the specific things that were said in the Old Testament about those places, and I found that was hugely helpful to me. So now, when I read the prophets in the Old Testament prophets and they mention place names now I'm much more serious about that and I'm like, wow, that's a real place.
Speaker 1:Where is it? And were the people there in the first century, or when did that prophecy? Was it fulfilled? How was it fulfilled? What is the record of that in church history? Is there a church at the place where that you know, and so on. So that's what you find, isn't it In the flight to Egypt? Isn't it even like? Even the Egyptian government recognised the route that the Holy Family went.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Egyptian government has tried to set up the hotels and everything to help pilgrims from around the world come to Egypt and they're trying to repair old churches, because there's a lot of Islamic extremism that's damaged churches, and so the government is trying to rebuild all these places and so they are encouraging people and I suppose we would encourage people if you've got a holiday planned, go there and help these churches rebuild and everything. Like you know, the government's helping them to do, um, you know, do this and then also find out this path. The holy family went and you can. You know they often go to other places abu simbel and everything and these are like very iconic um places that you can go, and so it sounds like a great holiday.
Speaker 1:There was an early church book written that's basically a travelogue of the Holy Family. What was that book called?
Speaker 2:Oh, there's several, oh several. Coptic Pope Theophilus, St Theophilus. He was visited by Mary and she often explained what happened in different places.
Speaker 1:She gave details of the Holy Family's travelogue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Mary of Agrada was a Spanish woman. She's received similar messages from Mary about.
Speaker 1:And I found there's this Egeria woman and when she did her tour of the Middle East, reports on how churches were celebrating these things the journey of the Holy Family and these things.
Speaker 2:She's one of the first mentions of Candleus being celebrated. Ah, there we are so I've.
Speaker 1:It's just interesting that the other thing that I found fascinating was this story, because if that is the holy family, and it's mary and joseph and jesus, and that they did go on this adventure to Egypt and then went around Egypt and then a Nile and went up the Nile and then back down to the coast and all this kind of thing that things miraculous, things happened and water would be miraculously provided, and that churches have been established at different points around the journey they made, haven't they Even to this day?
Speaker 2:And one incredible one, done in preparation for Jesus arriving, because we're told that the Holy Family made it a habit to visit every holy festival, but of course they had to spend some time in Egypt.
Speaker 2:So the Lord prophesied I think it's through Isaiah, I'll double check in a second but that there would be a temple set up in On, which is in today, part of Cairo, because Cairo is massive, it's got loads of ancient cities in it, but On was one of the cities that made up Cairo and it was prophesied there'll be a temple there and so, even though the Bible's like there should only be a temple in jerusalem, they did set up and philo and josephus all celebrated in this african temple because they were like well, he did prophesy it's got to be ready and they say it was. You know I had done so that the holy family could keep fulfilling all the law. It's very important for jesus to fulfill all the law and even when they're in egypt, that there's a place they can visit a mini temple, just for the sake of the incarnate god, so he could continue faithfully fulfilling the law even while he's in egypt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and obviously saint philo is a very patriotic egyptian. He that's. That was his. So he was, uh, the second richest man in the entire roman empire. But so he could easily go to jerusalem, but just out of sheer patriotism, he of course preferred to go to the Temple of Han.
Speaker 1:well, and really, because it's scripture had said this must happen, so he helped to make sure it would happen and kept it going, all preparing and helping for the holy family arriving. All these things were about this holy family doing this trip to Egypt and then, you know, fulfilling in really the history of the whole church. You know, going down to Egypt, having miraculous things happen in Egypt and then returning. All of that is reconstituting the history of Israel and the church and so that, just as when Israel did that, the Lord did amazing things to make all that happen. The amazing things also happened for the Holy Family. And it's because I was amazed that, like in the whole story of Israel and going to and leaving Egypt, like you've got all this amazing miracles of provision of food and water and things like that the same things happen for the Holy Family Amazing provision of springs of water and things like that. And have you?
Speaker 2:ever thought about how Joseph's father-in-law is Potiphar, the priest of Om. Oh wow, we were thinking how Joseph obviously has. I don't totally know what the significance of that, but there has to be something.
Speaker 1:There has to be something. Yeah, yeah, we'll have to meditate on that. This is the Bible. I find that once you pay attention to these things and find out what Christians from the first and second centuries did and thought about these events that happened right in the and they had people living memory of the events happening Quite often they notice these deep biblical references and then I remember. Sometimes I'm like, what are they talking about? And then later, as I've meditated, I'm like, oh, of course it's that prophecy that they think has come true and things like that. So, um, yes, these are the things. These are some of the things that happen are celebrated in candomus, the journey to egypt, and it helps us to understand why egyptian christianity was so strong, actually still is very, very strong, isn't it up to what 20 at least of egypt is?
Speaker 2:still. And the uh late coptic pope, um, oh, what's his name?
Speaker 2:shanuda the third yeah, he said there was a much higher proportion of christians. But they don't always show up because then a lot of the islamic officials will say, like you can't convert from islam. So if you had ever been a muslim, you converted to coptic christianity. They won't write you down as coptic christian. They'll will say you can't convert from Islam. So if you had ever been a Muslim and you converted to Coptic Christianity, they won't write you down as Coptic Christian. They'll just say you're a Muslim. So he says the numbers are much higher. So that's the official numbers. The actual numbers he always believed were much, much higher.
Speaker 1:So it could be 30% or even 40%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've obviously historically been the majority at various times.
Speaker 1:Up until quite recently. Recently, it was obviously the majority of lots of countries that were under islamic tyranny and the actual people on the ground were still mostly christian. It's only really in the past sort of 100, 150 years when people become culturally islamic and and sort of eventually bow the knee to the islamic overlords yeah, and there's a british adventure.
Speaker 2:He went through kurdistan in the 20th century and wrote down what was the proportion of christian fans most kurds at that time, like only 100 years ago were christian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even within 100 years ago, the majority of kurds were still christian, and those are the important things to remember, so that the kind this is again part of this church history vision that we get, that we're indoctrinating now to a people sort of try to present Christianity as if it's this Western European thing. But, of course, like all these, that's what's so good about celebrating these festivals, because they ground us back into the biblical reality, the actual geography of what happened, and it pulls us to see christianity as african and asian, as well as european. Now then, um, what, what we could perhaps do? Uh oh, just tell us a little bit more just now. Don't get into all the details, but what are some of the other things that get thought about in Candlemas? We could think about Simeon and Anna, but that's perhaps too big of a topic. Tell us just what are the kinds of things, that topics, that are focused on in Candlemas.
Speaker 2:So you think a lot about the seven sorrows of Mary that Simeon prophesied, that Mary would go through lots of sorrows on account of being the mother of Jesus, the mother of God.
Speaker 2:So they often think what are the different sorrows she goes through? And one of them is when Jesus goes to the temple and doesn't tell Mary. And Jesus expects Mary to know and he's kind of disappointed when Mary and Joseph don't know and that makes her sorrow. She says you know, I've been sorrowing because we couldn't find you and it's that you know that same sort of word. So then that's obviously one of them. But then you think the flight to Egypt has it starts with a moment of persecution and then obviously they have a wonderful time in Egypt A lot of the time. There's also some, you know, herod's men are often after them. Sometimes that causes some trouble, but um, there there is a sense in which being forced out because of persecution is another sorrow.
Speaker 2:So in a lot of time they think about what are the sorrows that pierce Mary's heart that Simeon prophesied about, and so that one in the temple is obviously interesting and that also is a story that we have about Jesus' childhood, that he goes to the temple and that he's disappointed, though not as much as he wouldn't be in later life, but he's disappointed with the teachers of the law and he's only just begun to find out just how far they've fallen. Because, of course, when he goes in the presentation, in the actual candle must story, to see Simeon and Anna, they're incredible. And then 12 years later he's like, oh, um, you know, I'm going to have to start correcting him about things. And then they still recognize that. Oh, still recognize, like, oh, this guy really knows the law.
Speaker 2:They still like him, but they're not, they're losing their edge. And then give it another 20 years and then he finds them so disappointing. So we see that a bit. That's a bit of the sorrow. Uh, that's a bit of uh, the candle was sorry, though, is seeing the last of like the kind of israel being absolutely amazing when it recognizes jesus with simeon and anna and then then beginning to lose it a bit and then, by the time Jesus is in his 30s, lost the plot.
Speaker 1:So we're looking at the after. He's a baby, is childhood, all those instances. Let me just end this episode with this question about a detail that comes up when I was reading some of the church history records that you'd shared about the Holy Family in Egypt Jesus, there is a little baby, possibly a couple of months old, and yet he talks to people and gives instructions and kind of preaches to people. And gives instructions and kind of preaches to people. Now, that idea of a two-month-old baby preaching and talking and giving pastoral advice to people is probably not everyone's used to that idea, but for Copse and Tauhidau they would can cope with that idea that Jesus has capacities that are extraordinarily beyond what is an ordinary baby.
Speaker 1:I think some people like to think of Jesus as an utterly ordinary baby and there's nothing remarkable about him at all, which is an odd thing to say, given who he is, and that a star hovers over his birth and things and unicorns come and magi and possibly a dragon and all this kind of thing, because there are dragons, aren't there in the journey of the Holy Family and things like that, as was prophesied. As was prophesied? Yeah, of course, but do you want to just make a quick comment on that idea of this little baby who is articulate yeah, so definitely like mary of agreda.
Speaker 2:She's this catholic woman who talks with mary a lot and then mary reveals some of the things jesus said as a child. So that's you know, in the catholic tradition. But interestingly as well luther uh, when cops and ethiopians came to visit luther, they quite liked how luther described jesus, and so there was a lot of you know, a lot of description of, uh, oriental orthodox priests seeing that meeting luther and they're like, actually this guy really gets jesus, we would quite like him. And then he of course wrote this christmas carol in which he said you know, hark a voice from yonder, manger soft and sweet death and treat fully from woe and danger. In which he said you know, so that Jesus says something as a newborn child, as mere days old, is like giving warnings and teachings and things. And so Copts and Ethiopians are like, oh yeah, this guy actually gets what Jesus is totally like. And then, as I said, there's's this Catholic mystic as well. Mary of Agredae says it. So it's actually quite a universal idea at one point.
Speaker 1:I think the problem is that some people go well, if he's really human he wouldn't be able to do that. And then it's easy to see. Even in the Bible you've got John the Baptist, who is an unborn. He's literally still in the womb and he's already doing prophetic work, leaping and celebrating in the presence of jesus and mary um and when adam was only a day old, you know he's able to name literally everything.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, you know adam, on his first day of life, names all the animals and everything. So it isn't intrinsically human to be ignorant. You can be human and have massive capacity on day one of your life and the Bible indicates that. So when people go. I believe in the true humanity of Jesus. Therefore, I don't believe he could have preached when he was two months old. That doesn't make sense. That's got nothing to do with his true humanity of Jesus. Therefore, I don't believe he could have preached when he was two months old. That doesn't make sense. That's got nothing to do with his true humanity. There may be reasons that you think he couldn't do that. Okay, that's up to you, but there's not really a theological reason to oppose Jesus preaching when he's two months old.
Speaker 1:And of course, I think it's really cool. I love the idea of the incarnate God already ministering in such a fashion, even when he's a little baby. That's cool. And of course, in the stories there's one point, I think, when bandits become alarmed because the uncreated light bursts out from the face of Jesus, because the uncreated light bursts out from the face of Jesus. So all these are these wonderful. I find them inspiring and worshipful stories that are preserved from 1st and 2nd century church traditions. I think that's all we'll do in this episode. I still want to get into why is it called Candlemas.