The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Rod Dreher wrote βto order the world rightly as Christians requires regarding all things as pointing to Christβ
Christ is the One in Whom in all things consist and humanity is not the measure of all things. If a defining characteristic of the modern world is disorder then the most fundamental act of resistance is to discover and life according to the deep, divine order of the heavens and the earth.
In this series we want to look at the big model of the universe that the Bible and Christian history provides.
It is a mind and heart expanding vision of reality.
It is not confined to the limits of our bodily senses - but tries to embrace levels fo reality that are not normally accessible or tangible to our exiled life on earth.
We live on this side of the cosmic curtain - and therefore the highest and greatest dimensions of reality are hidden to us⦠yet these dimensions exist and are the most fundamental framework for the whole of the heavens and the earth.
Throughout this series we want to pick away at all the threads of reality to see how they all join together - how they all find common meaning and reason in the great divine logic - the One who is the Logos, the LORD Jesus Christ - the greatest that both heaven and earth has to offer.
Colossians 1:15-23
The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Episode 64 - Pharmacon: Medicine, Magic, and Theology
Can our modern reliance on pharmaceuticals be likened to the ancient practice of magic?
Explore this thought-provoking idea with PJ from the Global Church History Project as we unravel the Greek word πβπππππππ, which intriguingly encompasses poisons, medicines, and magical potions.
We challenge traditional boundaries between medicine, magic, and theology, sparking a fascinating discussion about whether contemporary drug use has unconsciously integrated elements of ancient magical practices.
This episode paints a vivid picture of how historical and cultural perceptions of πβπππππππ have evolved and what it means for us today.
Journey through biblical times as we examine the fine line between dietary laws and pharmacological substances used for spiritual experiences.
From the health benefits of Daniel's vegetable-based diet to the use of naturally occurring drugs in practices like necromancy, our conversation reveals the complexities of drug use in spirituality.
We dive into shared testimonies of supernatural encounters under the influence of drugs and the warnings of church fathers about contacting malevolent spirits, illuminating the potential dangers highlighted in biblical scripture.
Trace the historical and cultural significance of cannabis, from its multifaceted uses in ancient civilizations to its restriction under Christian rule.
Discover how the Scythians used cannabis for spiritual and medicinal purposes, and how its usage transformed with the rise of Christianity.
Reflecting on the Bible's caution against undue dependence on πβπππππππ, we draw parallels to modern dependencies, questioning the balance and understanding of our true needs.
Donβt miss insights from PJ's book on historical perspectives on magic and the Bible, providing a deeper understanding of these complex issues - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Allhallowtide.../dp/B0CM6TZDS4
Join us for a captivating journey through history, theology, and the evolving perceptions of drugs and medicine.
The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore
Welcome to the Christ-Centered Cosmic Civilization podcast. We've been looking at language for quite a long time and we're going to change pace. We're going to do some different issues and concepts for a few episodes and then we'll perhaps plunge into another big topic, to another big topic. Um, but who's the gonna help us do this is pj from the global church history project. If you haven't checked out the global church history project, you really should do. It's, um, obviously, every day on facebook. He, uh, the, the, the team, provide an insight into different aspects of global church history all through the ages and that's amazing stuff. But if you're a patron, you'll know that you get much more material for each of those individual studies and there's loads of free books and all sorts of research and papers and things available for those who are financial supporters of the Global Church History Project. Anyway, he's here with us and one of the issues we're going to tackle the first one I think we'll do together I think we'll do together is looking at the idea of.
Speaker 1:Well, the English word I'll use a simple word is drugs, medicine, and the issue is is we we are quite comfortable in the modern world taking drugs and medicine and perceiving it to be something you know, these amazing effects that happen with the consumption of something that is fabricated, usually in a, you know, with very sophisticated techniques, with very sophisticated techniques, and we think that's completely normal and natural and simple, a straightforward thing, and it's absolutely integrated into modern living. But there's more to it, theologically and biblically, and that's what we'd like to explore and other questions that need to be asked, and is there any hesitation about it? Well, let me explain a key issue. There's a word, greek word pharmacon. Obviously we're used to that word, actually because we go to a pharmacy, a dispenser of pharmacon. But the word pharmacon has kind of three ideas. It can be used this is in ancient literature for poisons, straightforward poisons, and I think is this right PJ that when Socrates kills himself he uses a pharmacon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's several major figures that will die by pharmacon, and a lot of Christians might particularly know one ancient Christian work, the Didache, and that refers to abortificant drugs.
Speaker 1:So that's a drug taken to induce abortion? Yeah, and would that be a pharmacon?
Speaker 2:yeah, they describe it directly as that, and several later church fathers do, and so, and they defend the usage of that word because they say it is a poison used to kill a human ah, so there we go.
Speaker 1:So there's one. So the word pharmacon, one meaning of it is just poison, straightforwardly poison. Another meaning of the word is drug, and that's that's the way we've retained that word. That exists and all the meaning of pharmacon has been almost concentrated into drug or medicine, and that's there in ancient literature and in the Bible also. But there's another word range of meaning for pharmacon and that's more like a magical potion and that's more like a magical potion.
Speaker 1:A magical potion or someone who uses magic or sorcery would be someone who deals with pharmacon. A pharmacologist is a magic user in ancient and in the Bible. So can you imagine these three areas poisons, medicine, magic and that word says, yeah, those are all the same thing, they're all. Those three things coexist with each other Poison, medicine and magic coexist, they're all interrelated. Whereas in the modern world we would separate those things out into three wildly different categories that have absolutely no overlap, we would the way we use it now. I guess we kind of understand that medicine and poison. We kind of see that there may be a bit of overlap there because we're used to the idea that if you take too much of a medicine it becomes, you know, obviously very harmful and you may have to see urgent medical attention. And packaging on these potions will say that, literally, if you take too much of this you must seek urgent medical attention. So there we've got a memory and not just a memory a current existence of the fact that medicine and poison are overlapping, but the magic element of it, I would say, has been lost completely consciously. So in fact, I've seen debates where there's a medical practitioner or researcher or medical scientist who is arguing against a kind of occult person or a magic person in the modern world I'm talking, and they are attempting to ridicule the magic person. To say, oh, a magical way of looking at the world is ridiculous because it's against medical science, and I understand where they're coming from and what's going on, but it's a very strange conversation when viewed from ancient and medieval perspectives, because they're actually the same thing, like they're just the part of a similar continuum, and this is the kind of thing we want to explore with pj in this episode. Is this idea that here's? Here's how I'm gonna put it like there?
Speaker 1:If you read fantasy literature, sometimes there's fantasy worlds created or imagine, in which magic has become completely integrated into normal society, and so, for example, I can think of one sort of fantasy world or setting in which lighting in houses and streets is done by magic, but because it is so commonplace, everyone just accepts that as completely, almost normal and not like a thing to be wondered at. It's just normal to magically summon up lighting in houses and things like that, or transportation, it's all done magically, but because it's so commonplaceplace, it's not a thing of wonder. Um, and so you could imagine like so, if, if magic became completely normal in a society, would it be perceived as a magical wonder or would it be perceived as well that's just normal, that's just how the world works, and that the notion that it is magical, like a wonder, creating this impossible effect or something, is lost and there's this idea no, that's just what happens, kind of thing. I hope that makes sense, and so have we.
Speaker 1:Is the modern world, you might say? Is the modern world a magical world? And most people go not at all. It's a world in which magic has been completely expelled. It's like, was it? Who was the guy who talked about the like, the demagicalization?
Speaker 2:of the, the unweaving the rainbow, that's it.
Speaker 1:Who was that yeah?
Speaker 1:I can't remember yeah we can't remember, but it just occurred to me, the unweaving, the rainbow, the idea that the modern world is one in which all the magic and enchantment the disenchantment, that was the word I was looking for magic and enchantment, the disenchantment, that was the word I was looking for that all the enchantment and magic has been taken away and it's a world that's completely flat, without any magic or enchantment. Um, okay, that's one way of looking at it, but another way of looking at it is that the magic and enchantment has become so utterly integrated into the modern world that nobody even believes in it anymore, because they, we just use magic all the time in, just routinely, routinely, and so the magic and enchantment has become totally dominant, to this point that it's not even noticed anymore. So that's the setup for this. Let me hand over to PJ, and he can actually make sense of what I just said. What about this concept, then, of pharmacology, pharmacon? Tell us about that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, in Scripture quite a lot of times we see these words and translations will deal with these words very differently. And translations will deal with these words very differently. So the KJV in Deuteronomy 18 renders the word as witch, because if you think about it that kind of makes sense. So a witch is a kind of pharmacist, but it's a very negative connotations with it. You know, they've got a big cauldron and they brew up stuff. So like, ontologically there's very little difference between a witch and a pharmacist, but they've gone for that way to say. Oh, the context is very negative and in defense of that that passage also rejects enchanters and of course, when Jesus and the apostles chant a psalm, that can't be wrong either, you know. So it says people who?
Speaker 1:chant An enchanter is a chanter, yeah, and that the effect that a chant has is an enchantment. So let's just think about that. So when we chant the psalms we want to enchant ourselves. We are sort of casting a spell upon ourselves and there's a book of spells provided 150 of those spells for us to chant, to create an enchantment upon ourselves which is an enchantment with the Lord, to be utterly enchanted by the Lord in his ways or when we're down and depressed or overwhelmed or full of questions. We chant an enchantment which is a psalm to dispel the gloom or to. Is that the idea?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's that way in which they think, all right, the words we see in the Bible seem like quite broad words, but if we just use those, maybe too much will be caught in it. So the KJv used the word witch for pharmacist thinking. Everyone knows that is a kind of pharmacist but everyone thinks, oh, that's like an evil pharmacist. So. But then it does raise the question then, well, what is evil pharmacy? Uh, can, and how easily can we distinguish it if there is a good one? Because strictly then, this is a matter of exegesis.
Speaker 1:Can I just clarify? So is it what? Like the concept of alchemy, almost, where people know like an alchemist is a person who produces like potions and things, and the Bible's like yeah, you can do that in an evil way, which? Or a good way, and we would use the word like a medical doctor? Yeah, but both of them would be covered by the same biblical word yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the KJV then tries to use negative words when it thinks it's negative, and then positive words. But then we have to remember, as we're readers, this is exegesis, like it's not the direct word description. So we might have to be a bit discerning when you come across these words. Is the Bible being totally positive or negative? Are there actually any positive times pharmacon is used? Some would say not.
Speaker 1:I mean that'd be interesting to look at. Can I just cover? Because what that's so we could say for Deuteronomy 18 is this verse 10. So it's warning us. Let no one be found among you who you know practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in pharmacology yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so here in the KJVv it's divination observer of times, enchanter or witch. So right, yeah, here it says witchcraft in the niv.
Speaker 2:But you're saying if we just translated it neutrally we'd say a pharmacologist yeah, and if we think really carefully about a witch, so someone who gathers all these herbs from the field and everything, puts it in a cauldron and everything Isn't that exactly what pharmacists are doing? At least we should hope it's kind of natural ingredients. There's a big push now to make pharmacists conform more to witchcraft in a way. They want natural ingredients in a way. So we have to just try and think what are we applying in our own minds, separate to scripture, to all these words? And yeah, when you think witchcraft, it is just thinking what are herbs of the field and everything? I put it together in a pot or put it together in one solution and apply it? Will it have this effect? That is pharmacy, isn't it?
Speaker 1:So can I like let's explore this a bit, because the Bible is very concerned about diet, and the law again, because this is from the law to try to be 18. The law has lots to say about diet. And then there's Daniel with his diet, and it's that extraordinary effect, isn't it, where they've ended up just eating kind of salads and vegetables, and you would imagine and obviously the ancients imagined well they're never going to be healthy, they're obviously just going to be like probably bedridden if they're only eating such feeble food. And yet, miraculously, the spirit enables them to be incredibly healthy. And so there's that way in which so there's a diet, to eat food carefully, intentionally, to the Lord. That isn't pharmacology, that's just diet. But then when you take things and distill them in a kind of mixture and produce, that's pharmacologyology. So what's the difference between cooking and pharmacology?
Speaker 2:so it is a thin line and that's where we have to think quite cautiously, isn't it? And but I think there is a sense in which is it an?
Speaker 1:intention kind of thing. Yeah, you're cooking a meal, that's one thing, whereas if you're attempting to distill down this kind of powerful thing, that isn't food. Really. Nobody would say I'm eating a drug. You would go I'm taking it because you're wanting an effect. So is it the intention? You just eat food because you're hungry, your body needs it, and so on. But when you take a pharmacon, you're doing it to get an extraordinary effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then of course, the thing we always have to be cautious with when there's, I suppose, blurred lines in definition is how much do we apply what we want to be true? How much might we excuse? So, for example, one of the things the church fathers and a lot of ancient sources refer to as pharmacon are totally natural substances that might make someone put into a stupor. They tend to kind of translate this way. So particularly we see pagan hierarch would like try and empty their mind through the use of a naturally occurring drug, uh, so that they could invite other spiritual forces in to speak through them, and the bible encounters people like that. Some people say the witch of endor is an example of that sort of person. Um, and again, there's a lot of debate with the church fathers because some say the witch of endor was genuinely able to practice necromancy this way and that's mentioned in the bible.
Speaker 1:Necromancy, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, that you should. Yeah, there should be no necromancy, and that's often associated with pharmacon.
Speaker 1:That's in Deuteronomy 18. Again, it's those who ask signs of the dead. Yeah, carry on.
Speaker 2:So a lot of church fathers think the witch of Endor is able to genuinely do necromancy, and a lot of people who use certain even naturally occurring drugs today often feel they have encountered someone that they, that has departed, that they miss, or something, and they often, like, present this as quite a wholesome kind of like oh, I finally got to say goodbye, or something like that. The bible doesn't seem to deny that that's exactly what's gone on sometimes, but it says it's incredibly disturbing. Right? We see, the witch of endor doesn't expect to be able to raise a righteous dead person like samuel, and so when samuel does appear and she hasn't done herself into a stupor and all this, so it's totally out of control, but samuel does appear, she's terrified. So what is the character of a dead person who possibly drugs might enable you to interact with? Is that a wholesome moment that is often portrayed as in things, or is it really disturbing?
Speaker 1:so, because I know that there's like people who because again, the word drug even in our society today that covers taking, say, an aspirin for your headache, but the same word would be used for someone on a trip like taking an illegal. What we would say is illegal because again but it, and then you go in into a trip where you're then perceiving things that are Maybe, and if you go back to the vocabulary of the 1960s, it was completely assumed that you were tapping into a higher level of consciousness. Now there's often this idea oh, there is that people are not perceiving anything real, their minds are just completely generating nonsense, nonsense. Whereas going back in the 19th century and right it deep into the 60s, even into the 70s, there's a total confidence that what is going on when a person takes is that they are perceiving realities, real things, and that what the drug is enabling you to do is to contact and perceive things that are in dimensions or levels of reality that wouldn't normally be accessible. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as some of the church fathers who believe drugs are genuinely capable of this sort of thing, as they warn, if you're contacting and receiving information from a dead person who's in hell, then if you're taken to another realm what realm is that You're like? In hell, then what can? If?
Speaker 1:you're taken to another realm. What realm is that you're like?
Speaker 2:in hell. You've deliberately acclimatizing yourself to hell.
Speaker 1:That cannot be good yeah, and and isn't that? There's like, uh, assured vocabulary, isn't there about what is perceived? So, for example, I know we've had you on about fake creatures, but isn't it quite routinely the testimony of people who take drugs to attain what they would regard as a higher level of consciousness? Or you know, um, jim morrison, from the doors, would always talk about the doors of perception being opened, um seeing gnome like gnomes, because we know like fake creatures exist and there's the gnomes. There's a kind of shared vocabulary, isn't there about this sort of thing?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. But then, as several passages in the bible warn us, isn't it not, every spirit is good? Yeah, so there are these spirits that dwell in all these places and so many of them are part of God's kingdom. And then when you think, like only a third of the angels fall, so you'd think, statistically speaking, like oh, if you encounter spirit it will be good. But then you think a third, one in three, chance not worth taking.
Speaker 1:Really Well, and also the good ones are probably not hanging around waiting to interact with a person taking Pharmacon, but the bad ones, that is exactly what they're waiting for. They're just like, oh wow, because the good ones have got stuff to do, they're busy, they've got jobs to fulfill. Sent because Angel sent one, they're doing stuff, whereas the other third aren't sent one. They're doing stuff whereas the other third arm, or maybe they are sent by the um overseer to to do exactly that hang around waiting for people to open their minds to such influences. So what in the bible, then, would say? What we're saying is we've seen the deuteronomy 18. There's other places where this, the concept of sorcery, all these kind of things, um, uh, or daniel isn't daniel. Is there anything in daniel about this sort of thing?
Speaker 2:yeah, and in particular, again like picking up on the kjv's idea that we have to distinguish, like good and bad use, I suppose, of some things that the lord has provided. Um, it's, uh, the septuagint version, because there were two greek versions. And there's this theodotion text which was worked on by a rabbinic jew in like um late antiquity, like after the apostles have gone out. This um guy produces another text contrary to the Septuagint, and in that it actually refers to Daniel as a prince of enchanters, which is something obviously we see. Moses says Jews and you know we would say Christians today should never engage with enchanting in that particular way. And it's the exact same word.
Speaker 2:And instead in the septuagint he's given other words like uh, like one word kind of meaning wizard, like a wise nature. So the word wizard again we've. We now associate it with all the sorcery and everything. It means wise, like wiz is the wise bit and ard means nature, wise nature. So it uses that word instead like a sophist, sophistan, right? Um, I think, is the word um. So there's all this so we can see, yeah, there's ways to be wise about what's going on in the world and to know what things mean and their uses. So, like solomon, when he's given wisdom, he's able to even know what must means and what its use is, and all of this.
Speaker 2:So Daniel is a prince of that of wizardry, which, again, we might totally think, oh, we're not engaging with, you know, we shouldn't engage with all that, but again, it's this word the Bible uses of being like a prince of the wise natured, and that's what Daniel is. So we see that and we see the magi as well. So the magi was that class of wizards from Persia and Babylon and they have been correctly taught by Daniel, who was the archmage, as we saw, and so they, following the teachings of their archmage, come and see Jesus as soon as he's born, and so we can see, like, different kinds of wisdom and how we apply it and everything. But we should always be really aware that the bible warns against a lot of use of even naturally occurring things. Um, and so we can think, particularly when we think there's these pharmacon that put people into stupors and empty their minds and all of this, which are becoming ever more common. We might be aware of pharmacon that fit that description.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one thing we won't explore this now, but it's something that requires great thought is it's something that requires great thought is that, as a person approaches death, and maybe in discomfort, and therefore pharmacon is applied to them deliberately in order to make them not aware of the approach of death, deliberately in a kind of stupor, a painless stupor, and that obviously is a difficulty, because the circumstances are encouraging them to take death very seriously, which might require them to be upset and disturbed and shaken by the approach of death, but a pharmacon can enchant them or entrance them so that they do not have any awareness of the approach of death and therefore are denied the opportunity to prepare for it. I mean and let's not explore that now because that's an old episode in itself but uh, the let me put it to you that as because we've opened up a lot of issues in this episode and it's really we, in a way, what we're wanting to do is say what is the difference between, say, luke, who is a doctor, a, and that is not considered a bad thing in the Bible, he's a good person, and there's examples where, possibly in James, the use of medicine to help a person who's ill, all of that. Let me put this to you and then you react to it. What makes the difference between a use of Pharmacon that is godly, natural, versus evil, sorcery, is the way that it is used. So in the Bible, things that we call natural are all attributed to the work of the Lord. So it's like he makes the sun rise, he makes the clouds rain, he makes plants grow. All of that is said. The Lord does that. The sun is does. It does by virtue, and I'm using the word virtue there in its old sense virtus. It is the virtus of the Lord that enables the solar system to operate, for plants to grow. I mean, it's literally you know, you sow the seed, but it's the Lord who causes it to grow and produce a crop. That's a biblical way of looking at things.
Speaker 1:So what the godly person does, the Daniel Daniel, is like the prince of the wizards and he's the archmage and all that idea and the true use of pharmacon is to say here are things that the Lord has given us and if we use them, looking to the Lord to produce an effect in us, so I'll eat this, apply this, and the Lord will bring healing or help to me through this concoction, this drug, this pharmacon, but it's the Lord who's doing it. Now, if that's what we're doing, that's a good, that's good, that's a right thing. But if, instead, what we do is we say, no, the things themselves have power. And therefore, if I mix these substances, these substances have power. So now, like the concept of a sorcerer, is what is the source of the power? They believe? The source of the power is the creature, not the creator. And if a person does that and takes a drug, believing that the drug has the power to heal and help, that is evil. Is that a fair thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when we think that God is the answer to everything, you know the whole Trinity within them, we see everything. So when we and in the Bible, though, when it talks about creatures, often we see he's saying make sure you put this in this category and this in that category and don't mix them up Like kind of Numbers and Leviticus, it's kind of all about that. It's just saying everything needs to be in its category and used for its proper use. So, to give an example, I was reading a history of one particular pharmacon.
Speaker 2:The Cetheans are a group that the Bible mentions invading Israel at one point, and as they did, they planted cannabis because they were very fond of this particular pharmacon. They used it for everything. So they used it to make rope, which seems to be it's kind of probably probably use yeah, hadn't broke. We all know that. Yeah, so they used it to that. They would also, though, uh, smoke a lot of it in these tents to get into a stupor, and so they found their kind of rest and their spirituality and all of this within the use of this one thing, which, it seems from the general use of it. At the time, people basically just thought, oh, god's made that to be hemp to make rope so that we can build ships, uh, but Scythians had much more, so they but they planted it there. And then we see in Israel they did sometimes use it as a balm for local anesthetic. Some people think that is, uh, what the balm of gilead is like, a, but we don't obviously know exactly the cannabis of gill, the cannabis of gilead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense but then specifically used for a specific purpose, all right, as a local anesthetic. You think that's a limited purpose. You're not finding all your answers and your spirituality and and rest and comfort and everything. You're just thinking, no well, just a bit of comfort from pain, but then not taking it too far. But then the Romans again, once so, once Cetian is planted, romans then would like take these seeds and eat them and then get into a stupor and laugh and they would apparently just in meals, bake it into all their food and all that, and they'd all get into stupor.
Speaker 2:Then when Christians take over, with constantine onwards, cannabis becomes almost extinct because once again it gets used only really for hemp to produce rope, and so only in seafaring nations was it seen at all. So here we see kind of like when you look something as a god, you try and find its use in everything, and so like with computers and everything, we try and have it involved in everything. Now there's computers kind of digitizing everything, and so maybe we've made that a bit of a God. Similarly, and I think that's an example of where in the ancient world people, they became a craze and it's like we'll find all our answers in like a drug.
Speaker 2:And then you know, god gave it maybe two uses. It was all right, anesthetic and rope. But then they thought let's do all this, let's build spirituality and let's have parties with it and everything, and then christians got rid of that. Then they got rid of. So cannabis was almost extinct in europe throughout the medieval period and I think that's an example of that of thinking what, how do we have it in its use? So a creatures that god makes aren't meant to replace god and have all our source and comfort and help and everything in it. They all have like one use. And then we just think about why did god make this and just use this one thing for its purpose and not to get so carried away and to depend on a substance?
Speaker 1:so, uh, it's like when Christians go to the doctors, we pray about it and pray that the Lord, source of healing and help, is the divine physician and that, though that comes to us through earthly channels, the source of that is him and we.
Speaker 1:We want to maintain that mentality and that perhaps the the bible warns us against forgetting that and imagining that our true needs can be solved by mere creatures, because when we do that, we attribute to them far more capacity than they really have and we allow them to become too big in our lives.
Speaker 1:And many of us know what that's like to end up becoming so dependent on Pharmacon in different ways that our entire life becomes a life of that when, yeah, it's one thing to say I regularly or every day need to take a Pharmacon, but then to allow that to be the thing that we go at and I depend on that in a way beyond what we should think, there's a lot of questions to pursue. Look, that's all we can do in this episode. Let me just say, as we come to a close, some of these things are PJ has written his own book, caught on all hallow tide down through church history all hallow tide of this information and one of the chapters is all about understanding this idea of magic in history and the Bible and some of the questions that are raised by that.