The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Rod Dreher wrote “to order the world rightly as Christians requires regarding all things as pointing to Christ”
Christ is the One in Whom in all things consist and humanity is not the measure of all things. If a defining characteristic of the modern world is disorder then the most fundamental act of resistance is to discover and life according to the deep, divine order of the heavens and the earth.
In this series we want to look at the big model of the universe that the Bible and Christian history provides.
It is a mind and heart expanding vision of reality.
It is not confined to the limits of our bodily senses - but tries to embrace levels fo reality that are not normally accessible or tangible to our exiled life on earth.
We live on this side of the cosmic curtain - and therefore the highest and greatest dimensions of reality are hidden to us… yet these dimensions exist and are the most fundamental framework for the whole of the heavens and the earth.
Throughout this series we want to pick away at all the threads of reality to see how they all join together - how they all find common meaning and reason in the great divine logic - the One who is the Logos, the LORD Jesus Christ - the greatest that both heaven and earth has to offer.
Colossians 1:15-23
The Christ Centred Cosmic Civilisation
Episode 50 - The Heavenly Ledger: Angels, Justice, and the Eternal Victory of the Cross
Embark on a celestial journey with PJ from the Global Church History Project as we unravel the mysteries of angels and their place in divine justice. Our latest conversation is a deep dive into the spiritual dynamics of accountability, examining how even celestial beings are not exempt from facing the consequences of their actions. We sift through sacred texts, from the canonical to the apocryphal, to offer insight and comfort in the knowledge that a just God ensures all deeds, heavenly or otherwise, are reckoned with.
The enigmatic Book of 1 Enoch takes center stage in our discourse, as PJ illuminates its profound influence on early theological thought and its curious absence from many modern Bibles. While it may not grace the pages of every holy book, its impact on the concepts of messianic expectations and the intricate descriptions of otherworldly realms are undeniable. We traverse its rich narrative to understand why this text, cherished by some yet disputed by others, continues to captivate scholars and believers alike, offering a unique window into ancient understandings of the cosmos.
As our conversation ascends, we contemplate the substantial role of angelic principalities and their sway over nations. PJ guides us through scriptural passages that reveal a complex spiritual hierarchy, where divine overseers shape the fate of cultures and regions. Yet, amid these weighty revelations, we anchor back to the triumphant victory of Christ on the cross, which supersedes all earthly and heavenly powers. This discussion reaffirms our true identity in the grand tapestry of the cosmos—our allegiance to Jesus and our heavenly citizenship outshine the transient allegiances of this world.
The theme music is "Wager with Angels" by Nathan Moore
Okay, welcome back to the Christ Centered Cosmic Civilization podcast, and I'm still joined by PJ from the Global Church History Project, which you can find out more about that from church history. And then there's a Patreon page where, if you support it, the project even in a small way, you have access to huge amounts of books and extra materials, especially on these sort of subjects that we're thinking about. So PJ is helping us think through some of the perspectives we get in church history and from books that some of the church would regard as scripture, even if they're not in what is my sort of Protestant classical Bible. And there's books that are, I would call them, apocryphal and things like that, but they have things to add to this perspective on angels. But they have things to add to this perspective on angels, because what we've been really thinking about is understanding that angels have role in the heavens. Well, all of the angels have jobs to do and PJ was just telling us about and maybe he could pick that story up again about an incident that well, let me start with this into Peter, chapter two.
Speaker 1:From the beginning of the chapter we're warned about how there's always been false prophets among the people, and Peter warns us. There will be false teachers among you and they will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow the depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute In the greed. These teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories and that danger. We always see that in church history and it's true today in almost industrial scale, where people give teachings or just make stuff up in order to extract money or influence or whatever. Abuse people abuse people. And then Peter explains we're in 2 Peter 2, verse 3, their condemnation has long been hanging over them and their destruction has not been sleeping, so they're not going to get away with it.
Speaker 1:And then Peter hits us with something which I'd like PJ to kind of explain about, and he's got resources that are are well, we'll let him talk about that in a minute. Because then he's like, because we might say, well, if these, if these are like church leaders on in inverted commas godly people that are perceived that way and they they how they're gonna get away with it, aren't they gonna get away with it? Because, like, how can they be brought to justice? People who've done the have exploited people for for gain, particularly using religion, using christianity to do it. And we we see stories like that in the news and there's this feeling even today aren't they going to get away with this? There's no justice, because sometimes they've already died. And I'm thinking about some recent cases that I have written about and been involved with and been interviewed about where people have now died and they've got up to this abuse of people using Christianity, using, like Christian teaching in inverted commas to abuse people, and there's a great feeling of grief that they've gotten away with it. There is no justice. And then Peter's aware of that concern. There is no justice.
Speaker 1:And then Peter's aware of that concern and he wants us to know the living God of justice will see that justice is done, things are right. And to give us assurance about that, he takes us to an example where we think, wow, if justice is done at the cosmic, heavenly, angelic level, it certainly is going to be done on an earthly level if the Lord God doesn't overlook sin and abuse of power at any level in his cosmic civilization. And so Peter says in 2 Peter 2, verse 4, for if God did not spur angels when they send, but sent them to now here in the English it says hell, but in the footnote the Greek word is Tartarus. Sent them to Tartarus, sent them to Tartarus. And Peter expects us to know what Tartarus is. But he says, no, look the living. God does not overlook things. And even if angels, who are at a high level of responsibility in the cosmic civilization, if they sin, he doesn't overlook that. And God did not spur angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus. And then he adds, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for justice, day of judgment, that, uh, they've been sort of imprisoned somewhere called tartarus to await that final day of god, the day of justice. So he tells us that.
Speaker 1:And then he says if god did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, um, and so that's an a kind of an important one as well, because there was an? It like if the whole world was bad, would the lord god just go. I like, what can you do? It's gone too far, I'm not going to be able to handle that. No, peter says no, then he can handle it, even if the whole world has to be destroyed. He did that and protected the just eight that were preserved then.
Speaker 1:And then there's the example of 2 Peter 2, verse 6. He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes. Of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes. Now that, as Peter, that also involves there's angels involved in that story and humans wanting to abuse angels. And you're like whoa, how are you going to administer something like that? Well, he says look the Lord, god, peter intervened. So it doesn't matter what's going on, whether angels are involved or not, but in, actually, all the incidents that 2 Peter 2, 4 to 6 and 7, they're all about angels being involved in sin and judgment on earth. So Peter's reassuring us yeah, false teachers may do these things and they'll seem perhaps to have got away with them, but they won't have got away with them and the living God will see that justice is done from earth up to the highest heaven. No sin is overlooked, none of it is beyond its reach, none of it is too big or too small to be beyond the cosmic emperor, the divine emperor.
Speaker 1:Now then, what about this PJ? What is Peter on about here? You've talked a little bit about the sin of the ancient world when he brought the flood on the earth and that involved angels who stopped being chased and they lost their proper responsibility and boundaries and began to commit sexual immorality, and the Bible has a lot to say about that. We know the Sodom and Gomorrah incident, where there are angels that arrive and the humans want to abuse them in that way so that we can see that one. But what's going on? What's this business of? He didn't spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, putting them in chains of darkness.
Speaker 1:Does the Bible talk about these different sort of categories of? I'll use the word helver as a generic category of kind of supernatural, otherworldly places of punishment, other things like that in the bible and other things like that? I think revelation mentions places like that also and like um what is that about? And other things in books that are adjacent to what I would call the Bible that also mention these things. Let's throw it over to PJ for a bit. So I think, to help us identify what Peter's talking about, we do have Jude referring to the same incident and in a very same context. He seems to um understand this passage they were quoting the same way because he says that the heretics he's talking about are the wandering stars, for whom the blackest darkness has been reserved forever. And what it seems both of them are quoting is a passage from enoch. But but before we get into that, we'll talk about how there are these different categories in hell.
Speaker 1:Because we do see, like in the Psalms there's a reference to oblivion and then, as we saw there, we've got Tartus and we've got Hades, which seems a bit like a waiting room and it's quite gloomy and there's like we Silent yeah, there's no singing or dancing in hades, so it's like if you've been to the dentist or the doctors and you're in the waiting room, it is just like that. Yeah, gloomy, silent, depressing, yeah. So there are these ideas and we think, like so scripture does seem to distinguish tartarus, that that is for particularly bad people, and we do see elsewhere it said that false teachers are given a particular judgment. So these angels that use their position as angels to abuse these women and we often don't think of it that way, but it is that way're like we're told to respect angels and Peter again he tells us don't disdain angels and authorities, and these angels abused that command from the Lord for their lusts, and that is what's going on there, and people who do that, even in our realm, have the same punishment, and that is Tartarus. And so people often wonder what is that specific judgment to false teachers? And I think Peter and Jude do tell us exactly what it is it is Tartarus. And so they're quoting this passage from 1 Enoch, 21, chapter 21. And this is when the archangel Uriel, just before you, tell us what it is.
Speaker 1:Just give us a quick defense of why should we bother with 1 Enoch? It isn't in my Bible, is it in any Bibles? Just give us a quick defense of why we should even listen to something like this. So 1 Enoch is quoted a lot in the New and Old Testaments, as almost everyone will have received it, because it's quoted in Revelation. So you're saying Enoch did in fact write it and it was a book that was around for like thousands of years and Old Testament saints had it and read it. And it was literally book that was around for like thousands of years and Old Testament saints had it and read it and it was literally written by Enoch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's quite remarkable about the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example? They are very keen on the Messiah's arrival and they have a massive focus on Enoch and one of the reasons is Enoch. He lives before the law of Moses and everything, and he was preaching to all nations and they're looking forward to the Messiah doing that. Even though they also brought in people from all nations and we think about Jonah and everything there were always people doing that. But there is a sense in which they feel Jesus will bring things back on track to how things were in the time of Enoch. They were very upset with the Pharisees and Sadducees. Now they were continually, progressively excluding Gentiles, and then they get to this point and Josephus describes it this thing the Pharisees and Sadducees conspired to do where they didn't allow Caesar to sacrifice to the Lord God, and Josephus says this was the height of impiety. No one could believe it, but the Essenes, this Dead Sea Scrolls community. They knew what was happening for a long time and so they remembered Enoch. And Paul does a similar thing where he thinks about the people before the law of Moses and how they had always had this gospel for all nations. This is always Jesus focused. So they love Enoch a lot and it's quite important. They also had a master scroll, written in Aramaic, of the entire book of Enoch and they had loads of copies of it. They also do this for Isaiah and like Genesis and so on and all like. So they take Enoch as seriously as they do Isaiah, um, or the law of Moses. You know, enoch is a massive deal for these people.
Speaker 1:We can see philo quotes as scripture. We can see um, you know Josephus does, so many church fathers do, barnabas does, and, and jude literally just quotes it as if yeah, yeah, do you? Enoch said this, yes, so that is very important. And then loads of other times in scripture. And once you've read enoch you'll find loads of times people were quoting something and you're like I, I can't quite find that in the Old Testament it is Enoch. They are saying a scripture, saith. And then you're like scripture doesn't say that it does. Okay, so it's that.
Speaker 1:I know that there's a lot of recent scholarship that just shows that there are many, many quotations or tries. The argument is there are many quotations from Enoch in the New Testament and the Old Testament. Jude just overtly does it and you're saying others covertly do it. They don't acknowledge, they don't give us the say Enoch says this, jude does, but other times it isn't done that way. But is it other Christians who just say, yeah, enoch is part of the Bible. Yeah, the Ethiopians and Eritreans still do. Eritreans, yeah, yeah, they still do to this day. Georgians had for a lot of their history, armenians had the Byzantines. There are some Byzantines, in the 10th century I believe, who are still quoting Enoch as scripture.
Speaker 1:Augustine rejected it because he said he couldn't imagine that angels would be able to have sex and he felt that contradicted other parts of scripture, whereas I think, as we covered last time, we're not so convinced that is true. Um, so that, and in the end, I think augustine in his later years, he also didn't believe that, which kind of meant it was gotten rid of in the West for a wrong reason. Yeah, which Augustine changed his mind on, yeah, so I think that's quite important. We have to remember why these things were gotten rid of, and sometimes it's not that good an argument and we have to reconsider. Ok, so I know that you have an Ethiopic bible that has quite a lot of books that I'm not used to, and you're often quoting them to me.
Speaker 1:Why don't you give us this quotation then about and this is one of the archangels, is it right now? Give us the setup for it. I interrupted. So give us the setup for this and it's 1, enoch 21 from verse 1, but gives the setup for it and then you can read it to us and then we'll make of it what we will. So Enoch is this, obviously, and this is what we know even from Genesis, that he's a very pure man and he walks very closely with Jesus.
Speaker 1:And because he does, he gets to have this experience, like Paul did, where he's kind of shown the heavens and he's taught loads of things and he doesn't quite know if he's gone bodily or spiritually. He would end up going bodily, and Moses tells us that, but at this point he's being shown the heavens and even like hell and it's this quite striking thing. Like before Jesus, there's few people that talk about hell that much, in that much detail, um, but enoch does quite a bit and uriel is told to he's this archangel and he's very good at explaining things. So he also explains things to ezra um, in in another book of ethiopic canon and in jubilees and so on. He appears, he, he's good at teaching things, that's his main job. So he's showing him how the highest heavens and even the lowest parts of hell work. And we see again how this all fits into our understanding of the gospel Jude, and 2 Peter explains this, and once I read this passage you'll see how this all fits into it. So this is Enoch speaking now. He says and I proceeded to where things were chaotic and I saw there something horrible.
Speaker 1:I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it like great mountains and burning with fire. Then I said For what sin are they bound and on what account have they been cast in hither? Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me and was chief over them, and said Enoch, why dost thou ask and why art thou eager for the truth? These are the number of the stars of heaven which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and abound here till 10,000 years. The time entailed by their sins are consummated.
Speaker 1:And from thence I went to another place which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing a great fire there, a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire. Neither its extent nor magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Let me just scroll down. Yeah, then I said how fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who's with me, and said unto me, enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright? And I answered because of this fearful place and because of the spectacle of the pain. And he said unto me this place is the prison of the angels and here they will be imprisoned forever. So there we see Tartarus, this chaotic place right at the edge where the abyss is, and so Enoch's taken there and he thinks it's a terrible place to be.
Speaker 1:And Uriel explains why there are these wandering stars, who are the angels who sinned, and that they're in chains of darkness and they will be there forever. These things that Peter and Jude tell us. We can see how they're quoting Enoch. So Jude, earlier he explicitly quotes one part, but now we can see he's quoting Enoch elsewhere in his epistle and Peter does in 2 Peter as well, and. But that's quite important for our understanding then of the heavens and how it works. And we were talking about the different kinds of hell and everything. They are real and they have a purpose and there are specific judgments that are worse than others and, like false teachers, they have to go to Tartarus. They'll be in Tartarus with those angels and I don't know how they'll get on, but like.
Speaker 1:So. That's this idea, then, that the angels are, were created to have responsibilities in all the heavens the highest heaven, the second heaven, the first heaven. They've been given all these responsibilities and, as you were saying, like they, they like they're called elect angels, that this the choice. They're chosen and because they're serving christ and therefore chosen. But, um, some angels depart from the true role and in from one perspective, in it's like a third of the stars are taken out and joined with Satan in his rebellion, and so on. So angels are not necessarily fixed. They can rebel and depart from the created roles and become sinful and disobedient, and so on.
Speaker 1:Now, with that in mind, let's think about the principalities that are over the nations, and is it the case? There are 70 or so, or more than that. But that's one thing I want you to think. Explain this idea of the principalities in the Bible. Is that, in the Bible, the idea that there are angels over nations and do they rebel and do they lead the nations off in bad directions and things like that. Do you want to just comment a little bit about that? Well, there is that verse that says the Lord divided the nations among the sons of God, and that's one of those disagreements that some manuscripts have. So we've got the Masoretic text, I think has it say the sons of Israel, but the Dead Sea Scrolls as representing the Hebrew text at the time of Jesus and the Septuagint, which is the version Jesus quotes more often, they both have dividing nations among the sons of god, which is a phrase we see referred to the angels in genesis, in enoch and elsewhere, and in job, for example.
Speaker 1:So a lot of the earliest books, um in scripture, refer to angels as sons of god. Yeah, it's in. So it's in deuteronomy 32, 8 and 9, and there's a translation issue. Ah, yes, so when the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. And then it's the Lord's portion, is his people, jacob. So he has a portion too, like the second person of the Trinity, the divine angel. He has a portion that's church. That's the divine angel. He has a portion that's church? Yeah, that's the idea. There, isn't it? But all the rest of the nations outside of church? They're divided up amongst sons of God yeah, sons of God, and that would seem to be the archons, because we do see an archon appear.
Speaker 1:First of all, we remembered how Michael was referred to as the great archon. Daniel refers him as the great archon, homegas archon, um, so he's, he's one of them. We can see that there. Um, what we also see, he battles another archon who's, uh, called the archon of persia. Isn't, yeah, the prince of persia, that's right. So that is. And he says gabriel's another archon and he was fighting with him. So that is an interesting passage showing that obviously michael is still on board with jesus plan. He's a good one, um, but at least the prince of Persia has gone wrong.
Speaker 1:And I believe there's a passage where Paul tells us not to fear about, not to be afraid of the archons. But then there's other times we're told to respect archons. So the reference is in Daniel 10, verse 20 and 21, and he says this man who comes and strengthens Daniel because he's been a bit weakened because of his visions about Persia and things, say do you know why? I've come to you Soon. I will return to fight against the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece will come, but first I will tell you what's written in the book of truth. No one supports me against them, except Michael, your prince.
Speaker 1:So there's Prince of Persia, a Prince of Greece, and Michael is assigned to church people and we see Jesus delegates a lot of the stuff he is to Michael. So it's important that Jesus is the commander of the Lord's hosts, he is the God of hosts. But then Michael is sometimes called a commander and we see that in Revelation or he's sometimes even called the commander. But we know it's this sense in which Jesus is the real one and he's given this authority to Michael sometimes.
Speaker 1:But then is it the case then, would you say, given that thing about the prince of greece, prince of persia, like every nation or culture in the world does have a kind of a uh, some sort of an angelic creature or a principality over them, and that they give the each nation and culture, it's kind of character, basic, they, they govern it, and that there may be subane, there may be sub angels under that one, but there's one over each kind of culture. Is it or nation or yeah, and it's quite popular in portugal to have, uh, in pictures, to have the angel of portugal as like a good fella. They think he's quite good. I think it's quite odd though, like, as we noticed in that passage, throughout daniel, we see persia as quite a good, we see the kings of persia is very good and we see, you know, in other passages of scripture we see they restore the temple and all this.
Speaker 1:Persians are very good in the Bible, but their prince seems to be rebelling. But then the prince of Greece, even though we see the Greeks are called like very foolish in the Bible and all this, they've gone astray. Their prince is actually a goody and he's coming with Michael. So it's hard to figure out then, because think, if you're just reading the bible, you think well, persians are great, so then the prince of persia must be great. And then greeks are like foolish and they waste all their time just doing silly arguments. The truth, actually, in the heavenly rally, was opposite, so it's very difficult to figure out who's. So it could be.
Speaker 1:So, just um, these principality angels some of them seem to be good, doing what they were appointed to do and follow and listening to the divine angel, and and good, uh, goodly, angels. Others may be neutral, like they're just getting on with their job and not really. And then there's other ones that are leaving the nations and cultures in a bad way and they're being unfaithful, but so that in a way that's going on, there are principalities ruling over nations and cultures and things having influence like that. But then you're saying, and with this, maybe let's like kind of pull this episode to it and that we shouldn't necessarily worry too much about that, to say, oh well, you know, what should we do about the prince of britain or something, or or whatever is our one? Maybe there's an england one, a scottish one, a welsh one or whatever, but but whatever is our one. We might say, oh well, we're let. We should pray about our principality, or should we try and resist our principality or whatever? And really, maybe the apostles really are saying, no, don't worry about that. Why shouldn't we worry about that? What's the correct way to think? Yeah, I think it is to trust that we in that sense that many people from loads of nations will say I was born in Zion, we all are watched over by Jesus and he's more powerful. He gave all these principalities the power they have.
Speaker 1:And we were thinking about Baadai Shan in a previous episode, and it's a point he makes that when we're not believing in Jesus, there's all kinds of powers Some of them just physical, but some of them spiritual which can control us, and then we'll be like a ship that gets tossed in the wind and everything, and then there's all these things that pull us in different directions, but Jesus gave all of that, all of their power. So when we just tap into the life of Jesus, we can be truly free. And that again taps into something we're talking before, where we think some people say only God can be truly free. And that again taps into something we were talking about before, where we think some people say only God can be free, where it's like no Jesus can make us free as well. This is something Badai Shan says and it's quite, I think, important. And this is what we see with the principalities and everything.
Speaker 1:If we were unbelieving, then, yeah, the principalities, if our prince was evil, they would be one of these forces making horrible things happen. But we can just tap into jesus, right, and that is very much like I'll just give some scriptures on this as we come to the end of this episode that the end of ephesians 1, where you've got this incomparably great power. Uh, for us who believe his holy people, we are the glorious inheritance and everything that power is this mighty strength which he exerted when he raised christ from the dead and seated christ jesus at the right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion. So that's all the principalities, and he's far above all those, and he doesn't, and and we are seated with him. And that idea then is we shouldn't think of ourselves. Oh, we're under the principalities and they're going to control our destiny. Paul in ephesians 1 is saying no, no, no, no, don't worry about that. If you're joined to Christ, ultimately, in this sense, you're far above the principalities of Baal, your destiny is completely tied up with Christ. We get that same thing in Ephesians 3.10. And this is interesting because you might say how can we influence the principalities? I want my principality to be better. I don't want him to be a bad principality, I know.
Speaker 1:And then there's this strange verse in ephesians 3, 10 that says that god's intent was that, through the church, the manifold wisdom of god should be made known to the print, the, the rulers and principalities in the heavenly realms. So it's really, if you could maybe make your principalities so, if we're, whatever culture and nation we're in around the world, maybe we could get our principality to be better If, and the way to do that is through church. So we do make sure we're doing church really well according to scripture, worshipping Christ properly, sharing life together together, confessing our sins to one another, living out church properly. And ephesians 3, 10 says that will teach the principalities, things about the wisdom of god. So maybe the if, maybe if if the prince of britain has been, uh, going on a bit of a downer recently, I don't know, I'm not saying he is, but whatever, it's almost like the Bible saying, yeah, you could teach your principality to be wise by doing church properly.
Speaker 1:Ephesians 3.10 is such a deep verse. Let's have a couple more. I like Romans 8.38 says and again the word principalities, we'll do it from the King James when he says I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. So again, however powerful you might say, principalities and culture, and the thing is, christians get into culture, wars and they're trying to say, oh, we've got to change our cultures. And in a way the Bible seems to be saying don't worry too much about that. Focus on church and know that it doesn't matter the principalities and the cultural thing, like, in a way, nothing can separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Stay focused on Christ Jesus. He is far above all the principalities. If you focus your attention on him, he's the true power, above all the powers. He can handle the principalities and if he wants, he could give us a better principality or something. But he's almost like saying don't get too embroiled in you, you're worrying about the principalities. Let's have a couple more verses.
Speaker 1:Colossians 1 16. In christ, all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or principalities, authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. So they are all accountable to him, were created by him and are accountable to him and in a way it's saying let him worry about managing them. We shouldn't need to. This is true of all of our angel thinking like we might think oh well, what are we just what? How are we going to interact with all the angels? Don't worry too much about that. The one thing you must be focused on is Jesus, everything, all these powers and principalities created by him and for him, and let's trust him that he knows how to manage them better than we do. And let's just have another one Colossians 2.10.
Speaker 1:In Christ, you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and principality. Again, the principalities are not going to bring us the spiritual maturity they can handle, say, earthly, cultural kingdom things, but culture wars are never going to make people come to the fullness of God. Christ will do that, church will do that. These principalities can't save you. Christ can save you through church. He can bring you to fullness and he's head over all the powers and principalities.
Speaker 1:One last one uh, that on the cross he disarmed the powers and principalities and he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over by the cross. Let's just made this this like spiritual rulers and authorities or principalities, the idea that he, or the king james has it. He spoiled the principalities and powers and made a show of them openly and the idea is that in that like take greek, like that in daniel, where you've got greece or persia or the romans or egyptians, and, and you can easily think that is what matters most. What? What culture are you part of? What is your kingdom, what is your nationality, or even skin colour and things People get into, all these sorts of things. That is what defines you.
Speaker 1:But by the cross, jesus says no, none of those things define you. His kingdom, his nationality to be a citizen of heaven, and, as PJ was saying, the wonderful psalm that says anyone from any nationality, any principality, can be born in Zion and be part of the citizenship of heaven. And by the cross he's saying no, none of these earthly judgments define you. There's something that cuts across and by the cross is saying I don't care about any of those things, we'll die to those fleshly ways of judging. So that's just something for us to end off this episode with. I think in our next episode what we need to get into is who are the archangels? Can we know their names? Is there anything to that? Anyway, let's get into that in the next one.